Doesn’t matter what the headlines or the opinion polls say. Vote like democracy depends on it!
I voted for that bowl of tapioca once and I’ll do it again.
I’ll likely vote someone else in the primaries though.
There will not be a primary
This is the problem, DNC is refusing to hold a primary and is hell bent on forcing one of the only dem candidates who can lose to Trump upon us.
This is mostly about Biden’s ego - he thinks his legacy requires 2 terms. But what of his legacy if he loses the election, and democracy, all at the same time?! It’s madness.
Call your reps. Call the whitehouse. Demand a primary be held so this Titanic can avoid that MASSIVE orange iceberg, because it’s dead ahead right now and we’re barreling towards it.
This is the modern tradition. He’s the incumbent. We need to support him. He’s already proven he can beat Trump by a wide margin.
Not sure if sarcasm or?…
Biden barely beat Trump in 2020. It was by 40k votes in 5 swing states, and the latest polling shows Biden down badly in those same states this time around.
Snap out of your delusion
Polls don’t mean dick. Please don’t repeat 2016.
People’s opinions when voting matter, and just cause you don’t want to think about 2016 and think this tiny bubble of influence is enough doesn’t mean it cant happen again. You need to have a plan and embrace reality. Biden is, in fact, in trouble of losing.
He won by 4.5%, seven million votes, and 70 delegates.
And Trump’s base is dying off.
Trumps base is NOT dying off. They and their kids are saturated with non-stop radical right wing propaganda all day long every day in their trucks, their barns, their shops. The youth are actively courted incessantly.
7 million?! This is a tragic misconception. Do you understand how the electoral college works? Trump LOST the popular vote to Hillary, and still won in 2016.
Biden won by a slim margin of 40k votes across 5 key swing states in 2020, all of which polling shows he is now losing to Trump. Polls also show he is down by over 10% nationally, which means he has no chance. He’s an incumbent who has dropped below 40% approval rating nationally…this means he has 0% chance of winning.
Open your eyes. Facts matter.
I don’t live in the US so I don’t have a horse in this race
But it just seems like half of the people here can’t qualify Biden’s successes (and why he’d be worth a second voting for again) and the other half are just scared that Trump is on his way back and therefore the Dems need to vote like crazy to keep him out, regardless of how lacklustre his current term was.
I’ll say it here: he lost the popular vote with his unequivocal support for Israel. As a self proclaimed Zionist, he chose Israel’s genocide of Gaza over Trump’s victory and too many voters are going to remember that over whatever he’s going to promise (which so far is nothing; his campaign so far is just reminding everyone that the other guy exists).
There’s no way Dems win this one, unless Biden cedes to a more worthwhile candidate.
That’s quite the myopic view of US national politics. Biden can’t stop Netanyaho from performing escalatio on Gaza than he can force Macron to limit France’s trade coziness with China, affect the interaction between Pedro Sanchez and Catalan separatists, or require Erdogan to admit Sweden into NATO. He has influence, but he doesn’t hold veto power over a foreign leader.
Biden can simply stop the money flow and stop yelling WE SUPPIRT ISRAEL NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO!!!
There is no reason to support Israel in anything. There’s no value in it. It isnt even a functioning democracy (and neither are we for that matter).
Can you please explain the “isn’t even a functioning democracy” part? From my understanding it is a democracy, and their latest election got them a minority govt that had to go into coalition against their opposition. What makes it non-functioning?
It has no Constitution and has been punting on serious issues, leading to the entrenchment of the Nuttyahoo coalition.
LoL how many times has Bibi been outted but only for them to realize they had no replacement or structure on how to do anything about it and had to take him back now? What like 3 times now? Great government for the worlds largest museum for Abrahamic religions with guns.
That doesnt sound very functonal
Agree with that to some extent, But he obviously can denounce BB’s atrocities to say the least. The double standard between Ukraine and Palestine is sickening
That Biden can control Israel’s domestic policies is a false talking point promulgated by corporate media.
I really don’t think Gaza will be a defining issue in the 2024 election. It’s already fallen out of the news cycle and Gaza city will be under full occupation by next Nov.
Trump, however, will be in the middle of taking a huge beating by all his court cases. There’s zero chance he ever gets more support than what he had last election. The best thing we can hope for is that the GOP puts him up for another election.
Both parties have the same issue right now. Both candidates don’t have great appeal. But there aren’t any Democrats that have an issue voting for Biden. He’s been fine as president. We don’t have to worry about him going off half cocked all the time. The party will fall behind him. The same can’t be said for Trump.
The populations of US and Canada have a memory of a frog, the people at large won’t remember a thing unless you blast in on repeat near election time.
Democrats will likely target abortion protection as it is a winning issue and message for them. Republicans might be hesitant to hold on to the Gaza issue for 10 months as it is so divisive and is best exploited when events happen, plus if pressed on what Republicans and some Democrats would do differently you’d get humming, hawing and platitudes.
If I were a US voter (I’m not) I’d try to look past any single event. Trump continuously stirred shit in the US and around the world and spent his time fellating dictators like Putin and Kim Jong Un. His administration focused on separating families at the border, eroding net neutrality, give away money through tax breaks, ample amounts of loans that were forgiven, packing the Supreme court with cronies to twist the meaning of the Constitution. Biden on the other hand put people in charge to hold corporations and anti-competitive monopolies accountable for once, strengthen labour law, did everything in his power to reduce student debt, actually managed the Covid crisis and on and on. He did bung up a few things imo like how he handled the Iraq pullout and the rail strike but those were rough situations that I could at least still put a base amount of trust in him in the future not to fuck up too badly.
half of the people here can’t qualify Biden’s successes
People are happier running around bitching because it is far easier than taking the trouble to delve into the real news. The MSM is largely responsible for it. Biden has to continue aid to Israel because it is popular. What most people don’t see is his behind the scene work of getting Israel to the table instead of the launch button. Biden has been working through Qatar to get Iran and Hamas to back off, simultaneously rounding up support for a multinational force to enforce a border between Israel and Palestine while possibly establishing a two state solution with international teeth.
Imagine thinking that Trump is in any way, shape, or form, better for you and your family than Biden.
Conservatives and Republicans: hate working class people, hate people that rent, hate minorities including women, want to privatize every last piece of American society so you’ll have to subscribe to your alarm clock and appliances.
It’s the illusion the maga crowd clings to. They think the economy was better under Trump and they think that relates to prosperity for them. The truth is that the economy really only indicates how the market is for the wealthy. But they don’t see that. Trump, like nearly all GOP, is fully prepared to strip mine this nation of all resources possible, which would me amazing for the economy. 🙄
Trump prints trillions of dollars. Loses election, then blames biden for fixing his mistake.
It’s fucked…
Welcome to every election cycle since Regan. Repubs fuck the economy and blame the Dems for trying to fix it.
I generally agree except I think Bidens secretary of treasury screwed the pooch by not borrowing more longer term debt at low interest rates. So now we’re paying 1T per year in interest.
The whole system is completely fucked right now.
Well, Manchin wasn’t gonna let him do what they originally planned to do. We would be in a very much better position if that investment had happened.
Ah yes, the obligatory “the other guy is worse” post. We know the other guy is worse. That doesn’t mean democrats shouldn’t pick better candidates.
Well besides being old he’s not really doing so bad tbh. Who else would you put up for election? Jon Stewart?
I like presidents who aren’t pedophiles.
So you won’t vote for Trump the pedophile. Got it.
A criticism of Biden isn’t praise for Trump, no matter how many times you people try to gaslight yourselves into believing otherwise. Yeah, Trump is a pedophile too, point being?
I don’t understand how they can possibly put Biden forward again. He’s well past losing his marbles. Way too old to run imo. It’s disgraceful.
Isn’t Trump in the same boat? Trump’s 77, Biden’s 81. One may easily argue they’re both much too old to be running.
Neither of them represents an acceptable choice to lead a party. That’s kind of my point.
If these are the only two viable candidates then something is completely broken and needs to change.
That’s what we get with a two party system. The parties don’t really need to compete through better policy, simply spending more and being marginally less bad in the eyes of the voters on your side of the line is enough of a strategy for them.
If 3rd parties were viable, democrats would actually have to compete in the ways that matter, and we wouldn’t see shitty politicians like Biden as much.
But we’re not going to get that until election reform (STAR & Approval voting, ban on money in politics, etc) happens.
Gaetz talked of banning money in politics. This could have been an easy win for Dems by taking him up on writing that legislation. Interesting that they chose not to pursue the one issue everyone in the US agrees on.
Yeah and Trump said he’d get rid of corruption in the government.
I trust a Republican as far as I can throw them. Never forget that McConnell filibustered his own bill when Obama said he supported it. Gaetz is just setting up a football to grab away at the last minute.
It’s still an easy win policy. Nothing would expose corruption more than having people vote against corruption and seeing who voted the bill down
I don’t see the harm in it, fair enough. Even if it’s politically unwise to take action against Democrats who vote for it, in my opinion, it’s still worthwhile to know where they stand. Down the road, when we aren’t fighting an existential christofascist threat, we know who to vote out. Or, we can see who suddenly feels very strongly for it, after having voted against it.
Never forget that McConnell filibustered his own bill when Obama said he supported it.
It was shockingly amazing to see this, jaw-dropping actually.
I wonder if that’s the first time in Congress history that something like that ever happened.
A single congressman isn’t enough.
Age limits are something we should talk about in general, but using that as the reason to discount only one candidate is asinine
And you think the Dems don’t? Don’t mistake pandering for genuine concern.
So I’m supposed to vote for the genocide supplier?
want to privatize every last piece of American society
And Democrats are not doing this?
Like it or not we are stuck with a two party system. As fucking awful as Biden is, and he is, Biden is the lesser of two evils by far. And that applies to democrats/republicans as a whole.
Both parties/candidates are to some degree cool with genocide and privatization, but only one of the two stands out as the worst, and the worst by a lot.
Don’t like it? Vote for local candidates/congressional candidates in primaries that will fix the two party problem. But in the mean time the better presidential option will be anything with a D next to their name.
I will not vote for the party of genocide supply. Aka the dems.
Local candidates are not going fix the two party system. That’s a national issue.
I don’t know the solution, but buying into the Dems bullshit “lesser of Two evils” AGAIN is not it.
Have fun being the same chump you were 8 years ago.
You want to ever vote again? Then take a long, hard look at what each party is trying to do about voting rights. If you want to stop genocide, a Republican in office is the worst-case scenario for you; and there is a non-zero chance that voting against Democrats in 2024 means that 2024 will be our last real election ever, after which the genocide would come across the ocean.
Think about the worst case scenarios here—in case of a blue wave, the worst case is another four years of lackluster governance and pretending to keep our hands clean of the worst stuff happening in the world, while winking at corporate greed and doing nothing about climate change. Not a great outcome.
In case of a red wave, we don’t have to guess about the worst case, because Trump is telling us what he’ll do: make anything but Christianity illegal, militarize the borders to turn away refugees, curtail the first amendment, hand Ukraine over to Russia, help Israel glass Palestine, make it harder (impossible if he can manage it) for people to vote against him, try to get an extra four years as penance for what he sees as a “stolen” election, retaliate against anyone trying to hold him accountable for his crimes, roll back environmental protections that will make climate change irreversible, nominate perhaps another SCOTUS justice who’s even more unhinged than the other three he installed, and vague threats of violence toward everyone who isn’t straight and cis. That is all stuff that he has promised to do at his rallies. And all of that isn’t even touching on the financial disaster that his tax policies actually unleashed between 2016-2020, and the regular horror of mass shootings and white supremacy that goes up under every pro-gun president, but Trump in particular. Not a survivable outcome.
This isn’t a normal election. Giving Trump (or, at this point, any Republican) a chance is off the table. He’s shown us and told us what he’ll do if he gets the White House again. If you want to vote third party to send a message, you have to contend with the possibility that there won’t be anyone left to hear it in 2028. Yes, people’s lives are on the line. So don’t let Republicans have the chance to step across that line.
Replace evey year you listed with 2012.
And replace trump with George w Bush.
These were the same arguments being made by Dems back then. I voted. And we still have genocide supply. The genocide we have now is unacceptable. Just because there is potential for it to get worse don’t mean I should accept they situation we have now.
Biden cut check to Israel with a smile on his face. So will the republican party and so will future democrats. None of them will be getting my vote.
You’re a genocide apologist when you vote blue.
That’s not what they said in 2012 (a year when Bush wasn’t even on the ballot, by the way). I’ve been alive for ten presidential cycles, and I’ve never seen it this bad before. I’ve never seen a candidate with such blatant disregard for democracy, or voters who are so blithe about tossing away their voting rights.
But even if they said it then, it doesn’t preclude it from being true now. Things can get worse over time. A threat narrowly defeated in one year doesn’t prevent that threat from gaining power and causing more problems a decade later, and the GOP has undoubtedly gotten worse over the last thirty years.
Ad hominem nonsense aside, your comment would’ve sounded somewhat reasonable in 1996, but in 2023 I don’t think it is. If you see the danger but run the other way, aren’t you treating the many more lives that would be lost as a result of a second Trump presidency with the same clinical disconnection that the Democrats are treating the Palestinian lives lost with each shipment of arms?
It’s literally the trolley problem. You want to not be the one pulling the lever. That’s fine. But the point of the trolley problem is that there’s not a morally correct answer. It’s a terrible situation, and there’s no right way to respond; but lambasting others on the internet for their choice is definitely the wrong way.
That’s not what they said in 2012 (a year when Bush wasn’t even on the ballot, by the way).
You are right it was in 2000. That was a long time ago.
Anyways here’s an article talking about black voters are " choosing the lesser of two evils" when voting for Gore. Remember how that turned out?
If I remember correctly gore got more votes but Bush still won because his brother was the governor of Florida or something…
Thinking that abstaining to vote washes your hands of association is not correct. Your abstention counts as a vote for the winning party, whether you like it or not.
Choosing to continue to participate in the social fabric is supporting the choices made much the same as casting a vote. You’re paying taxes, you’re collecting incentives, you’re participating in the economy, you’re enabling the growth of GDP.
By your own logic, assuming you’re an American citizen and not just a troll, you’re also a genocide apologist who’s enabling whatever party wins.
Choosing to continue to participate in the social fabric is supporting the choices made much the same as casting a vote.
What a crock of shit. I can’t realistically opt out of “the social fabric” I can choose who I vote for. And it won’t be biden or trump.
Y’all should try it!
you’re also a genocide apologist who’s enabling whatever party wins.
You are exactly right…I voted for biden in 2020.
I will not vote for the party of genocide supply. Aka the dems.
They’re both supporting the ongoing genocide. This isn’t helpful for deciding who to vote for.
Local candidates are not going fix the two party system. That’s a national issue.
Which is why I specified local/congressional. It’s going to take all levels of government to unfuck us from a two party system.
I don’t know the solution, but buying into the Dems bullshit “lesser of Two evils” AGAIN is not it.
Only one of these choices is actively trying to turn our country into a theocratic hell hole.
The “lesser of two evils” is fucking awful, but it’s true.
Have fun being the same chump you were 8 years ago.
If you can’t talk about politics without resorting to personal insults then you must know how weak your argument is.
They’re both supporting the ongoing genocide. This isn’t helpful for deciding who to vote for.
You are the one deciding between the two only, not me. I will vote for a candidate that has a platform I can support and nothing else.
It’s going to take all levels of government to unfuck us from a two party system.
The dems continue to get elected because of the Two party system. They aren’t going to change it.
Let me know when it does tho…
Only one of these choices is actively trying to turn our country into a theocratic hell hole.
Yes, and the other will happily participate in genocide, be unable to create real change in Any area I care about and then pretend they are the party of moral superiority.
You vote blue you will still have red on your hands.
I will vote for a candidate that has a platform I can support and nothing else.
And in doing so you’ll waste your vote, allowing the worst possible option (Trump) to get voted in.
The dems continue to get elected because of the Two party system. They aren’t going to change it.
Establishment democrats won’t let it happen, but they can’t do shit if they don’t get elected, and actually good candidates get elected instead.
Which means all levels of government are involved. And this issue needs to be fought in the primaries as well.
You vote blue you will still have red on your hands.
There will be red on everyone’s hands no matter what. No matter who we choose, our tax dollars are going to genocide.
The least we can do, the bare fucking minimum is to reduce the amount of red.
You’ll have just as much red on your hands as I do. But the difference is that you’re willing to let it be more red.
Establishment democrats won’t let it happen, but they can’t do shit if they don’t get elected
So we should vote democrat? Lmao Are you hearing yourself?
There will be red on everyone’s hands no matter what. No matter who we choose, our tax dollars are going to genocide.
And people tell me I’m pessimistic.
Our tax dollars are going to genocide because of the tacid support our politicians get from people like you.
You are the problem, you are the person who refuses to do anything different.
This situation didn’t start in 2016, it has been made by decades of people making the same choice you insist everyone make.
Vote blue or else!
The GOP also continues to get elected because of the two party system. There’s a much better shot at taking over the Democratic party to force reform through than will ever happen with the GOP. I want to vote third party, but I’m not going to pretend that it’s safe to do so yet at the level of president.
I want to vote third party, but I’m not going to pretend that it’s safe to do so yet at the level of president.
You are the problem.
There’s a much better shot at taking over the Democratic party to force reform through than will ever happen with the GOP.
It is much more likely that a 3rd party will win, than the democratic party being reformed. Change my mind.
Oh get the fuck outta here, that’s not the only issue at stake
Certainly not too genocide apologist like yourself.
The presidential race is the LAST place you should be making your stand. It’s like you want to skip all the early levels of the game (local and state elections) and jump straight to the final boss without realising you won’t win this game by doing that.
I refuse to play rigged games. And so should you.
Have fun having an even more genocidal Trump presidency then, idiot. Third parties can’t win mathematically.
What if everybody took the same stance as me?
What if all the people telling me to vote lesser of two evils, voted independent?
Does the math line up then?
Maybe your the problem. Have you ever considered that?
If everyone did that we would have a solution.
The reality is that with the current balance of power that will never happen.
It not that I don’t wish for it to happen, but even if two people here agree there’s no way we are going to take 70 million votes away from each party equally to guarantee neither can beat the third party.
We have one path: get more young people who aren’t batshit crazy into both the Senate and the House until we can force campaign finance reform, ban all of the should-be-illegal lobbying, force a voting system chance, and ban gerrymandering. Nothing else is going to beat the corporate government.
Not all of us live in ImaginationLand, unfortunately.
My problem what? Hint: It’s spelled ‘you’re’ in the context you’re using it. ‘Your’ is the possessive. ‘You’re’ is a contraction for you are.
And the actual point you’re making here? It’s not correct. Here’s why.
The GOP is the Authoritarian home. It’s the place for people who think that our problem as a nation is that other people are doing what they want in defiance of what the Authoritarians want. There is no vote splitting here. The jerks are lined up and HARD behind Trump, and the outcome of this election, without hyperbole, will be world-changing. Trump has already said that he will imprison a long list of people that includes people like you, and compared them to rats, roaches, and lice in a comparison frequently made by the kinds of people who have body counts in the millions after it’s all said and done. You’re not poaching any of those votes for your third party.
The only votes you’re poaching are Leftie Democratic Party votes. Who wins the election where 51 people vote for the Left Parties and 49 people vote for the Right Party? The Left, right? Wrong. It all depends on the breakdown of the votes. If 48 people vote for Blue and 3 vote for Green, while 49 vote for Red, it doesn’t matter than the 3 Green voters are closer aligned to Blue than Red. Red wins and all 51 people who voted against Red lose. Simple FPTP rules. Anyone that claims Green can remake the Left is either naive to the point of absurdity given everything that has happened over the past 23 years, or a plant from Team Red trying to get us to split our vote so they can steal the election.
You need to read up on Project 2025. If Team Red wins, that’s what’s in store for us. It’s bad. It’ll be bad for Gays. It’ll be bad for Minorities. It’ll be bad for the environment. It’ll be bad for Liberals. Exercising your protest vote will hurt a long list of people and priorities the Greens say they are behind.
It’ll be bad for Ukraine, and bad for the Russian people because Trump will crawl in bed with Putin and Kim and Xi to reshape the world away from the Western Liberal Order to an authoritarian order dominated by a Fascist USA, Russia, China, and North Korea. They have not hidden their desire to make the 21st Century a century of Authoritarianism. Team Red here in the USA is fully behind that, and their voters are looking forward to putting the boots on our faces. And there’s no argument you nor Team Green can make to sway them away from that goal. But they’ll sure back you in peeling votes away from Team blue, because they know 49 beats 48 every time and you’ll never get 50. You literally have no chance of overcoming Team Red, but you have all the chance to draw support from Team Blue to the point that both Blue AND Green lose, and Red tears down everything you ever (said you) cared about.
That’s why we are so dismissive of you. The only thing you’ll accomplish is ensure Red wins, then the game is over. Our only question is are you so stupid and uninformed that you’re doing this on accident, or are you one of them and are doing this on purpose.
You’ve been attacking the Dems for this, but why do you believe the Republicans will do differently? Or were you talking about independent?
I don’t believe repubs will be better. I just consider them two parts of a single flawed system.
By voting for either of them you support both parties.
Not sure if this is enlightened centrism or not but avoiding voting all together doesn’t solve anything either because one of the 2 will be elected regardless.
In the US there are only 2 possible winners, a democrat or a republican. Not voting or voting 3rd party is the same as throwing your vote in the trash because of the way the US system works.
So your choice if you want to change something is to vote for the one that has the highest chance of working towards your goals, and that is a democrat, even if almost everything they currently do is awful. Because if a republican wins, your concerns aren’t even going to get into ear reach of them.
Either participate and vote to try to change something or accept that you’re discarding your already limited political power by taking this moral stance, and in the process also making the problems you’re concerned about worse.
because one of the 2 will be elected regardless
What if all the people chanting better than trump voted independent?
What if you guys did something other than the same thing we always do?
Either participate and vote to try to change something or accept that you’re discarding your already limited political power by taking this moral stance, and in the process also making the problems you’re concerned about worse.
Voting blue is not voting for change its voting for “not worse”. And even then it will still get worse under dems You’re defending this system by continuing to buy into it.
I voted blue every time I voted, and we still have genocide supply. Its unacceptable, and thus I will not accept it.
Have fun being a genocide apologist.
By voting for either of them you support both parties.
Voting for one of them is our only choice if we wish to influence the course of our country.
Voting for one of them is our only choice if we wish to influence the course of our country.
Voting for dems is the SAME course we are already on.
How can you not see this. This is what we have been doing for decades.
The problem with the trump administration is that people picked him thinking they were making the same exact decision you’re making, and look where it took us.
Trump would dump multiple times the amount of money Biden is into Israel, and he’d pivot us to backing Russia in the extermination of Ukraine. Assuming he doesn’t start another genocide himself, he will absolutely make the situation worse.
Biden may have no shame, but Trump is constantly talking about doing even worse. Pretending risking him in office would be better is a dangerous delusion.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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I have voted in every major election since I was 18.
That includes 4 Presidential, and many local ones.
They have been playing the same “lesser of two evils” card since George w. Bush. And probably before.
You’re a chump for thinking things will change by playing into the same trap.
This will be my 7th Presidential, and I have voted in every eligible local/state election.
You offer harsh criticism but no actual solutions, like you’re still 20 years old and thinking the world will change if you just talk about it enough.
Republicans will always lie cheat and steal with zero concern for ethics or scrupulous moral considerations when it comes to undermining principles of democracy if it increases their wealth and power projections. Always.
Democrats will also do that, sometimes, but not always. Don’t vote for evil, but don’t let guaranteed evil ever get unfettered control of a flawed constitutional system built where evil cannot be stopped other than by extreme means involving violence and bloodshed. See slavery and what we had to go thru to ultimately eliminate it.
These two groups have a stranglehold on our politics and no amount of bullshitting is going to work around it. If people weren’t smart enough to pick Sanders over Clinton in 2016, if people were’nt cognizant enough of the idea behind not supporting Clinton in the primary simply based on not allowing a few ‘royal’ styled families to maintain a grasp on the reigns of power, if We the People aren’t rioting in the streets to maintain an open, independent, liberal democracy, why would you expect people be smart enough to engage a third party candidate?
You have to plan ahead instead of yelling about it the last goddamn minute (in terms of election timing, this is the last minute) if you ever plan to side step D vs R, you have to look ahead 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 years and laser focus on all elections on all positions including packing the court with ethical judges that aren’t beholden to ludicrous legal think tank fronts acting as formal legal society clubs. But nobody has time for that much less the will to create a set of policies that will garner support of a large enough swath of voters that it could affect the sweeping change you want so bad (and yes, that we all probably need).
At this point, unfortunately, you’re a chump for thinking things will change by playing into the same trap of voting third party against the two parties holding all the cards.
like you’re still 20 years old and thinking the world will change if you just talk about it enough.
Ahh yes there it is. I’m an angry youngster.
You have to plan ahead instead of yelling about it the last goddamn minute (in terms of election timing, this is the last minute) if you ever plan to side step D vs R, you have to look ahead 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 years
What if 10 12 years ago we all started voting independent? I think that would have a big impact.
In fact I think if we did that work years ago, we would have a healthy 3rd party candidate now.
But instead we keep doing the same things we always do… Vote blue or else!!!
The greater of two evils won in 2016. If you saw no difference between the Trump and Biden presidency, you’re a privileged person with the luxury to worry about genocide in another country more than what will happen to you.
I am a privelged person, I don’t live in a country being genocided rn. And apparently so are you.
To me It doesn’t matter if its happening in another country. I personally feel You are a coward to down play this genocide simply because its not happening in your back yard.
You got more immediate problems? Ok. Trump is gonna do bad shit? Almost certainly.
But Biden is not the solution to the problems in america. Dems will not bring about real change. They will only allow for a future republican candidate, with better PR, to take hold.
They are worthless. And your support of them only amounts to the same flawed choice, and the same outcomes already have.
Finally answer me this:What if everyone telling me too vote lesser of two evils, voted independent?
It’s because of people like you letting them get away with being the lesser of the evils. If Dems were an overwhelming majority they couldn’t campaign on how close they are to losing everything.
I was a Republican and have voted the same number of times you have. Republicans fucking joke about people like you allowing them to win.
Let me get this straight:
I’m letting the dems get away with becoming the lesser of Two evils by not supporting them…And you aren’t doing that by voting for them? That sounds like BS to mee.
If Dems were an overwhelming majority
They had both houses and the president in 2020 and didn’t do shit.
We still have genocide supply… We still have campaign fiance corruption and a million prblemz they didn’t do shit.
Donald would send significantly more funds for that genocide and would help Russia with their genocide in the Ukraine. So doing some basic room temperature IQ thinking I’m going to pick the less genocidal option.
The USA is going to back a genocide regardless of your opinions. Learn how dirty your hands are and then make decisions that lessen the dirt in the future rather than digging straight into the shittiest option by trying to appear righteous.
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Does anyone not think that?
The people who think fascism could never come here, I guess?
The people who think now is the time to make a moral stand by voting 3p
Every time is the time to vote for what you support. If you did we wouldn’t be stuck with neoliberal ghouls like Biden.
You are absolutely correct, instead you’d have the literal fascist Trump instead. It sucks, but as lang as you guys have the first-past-the-post (2 party) voting system, voting for the lesser evil is the best one can do.
The only way to change that is to vote for candidates that support other voting systems like ranked choice voting.
Sorry, but you’re not going to get ranked choice voting just by pretending you already have it. FPTP and the electoral college are realities of US politics and the “lesser of two evils” approach is the only realistic way to play the game.
The executive branch is the wrong place to try to achieve ranked choice voting anyway. Vote for legislative candidates who support ranked choice. If nobody is talking about it, call your representatives. Start petitions. Join grassroots organizations. Anything, but don’t fool yourself into thinking the path to fixing our issues involves voting for Jill Stein over Biden next year.
I’m not pretending we have ranked choice voting, in fact I know we don’t, that’s why I vote for candidates that support ranked choice voting.
I’ll be voting for the candidate that does in each level of government. The greens would run more congressional candidates if you would support and fund them instead of voting for their opposition.
Those people should probably take a look at the Nazi march that went down in Wisconsin yesterday if they think it’s not or can’t happen in the US.
A shocking amount of news never makes it out.
Wait you can lose elections? Shit …
The Democratic party leadership doesn’t seem to understand it
I don’t think about this ever. I’m literally waiting for one of those two worthless parties to die.
Oh, it’s both parties are the same so I’ll do nothing guy!
Biden could have done what’s best for the country and been a one term president. I’ll still vote for him but not because he’s some amazing leader or anything.
So they did it to themselves if they lose.
I don’t know, I think the situation is more nuisanced. I didn’t vote for Biden in the primaries (I did in the general), but I have to admit he’s accomplished a lot more than I anticipated he would. At the time I just wanted a president who wasn’t a complete train wreck.
I’d be all in if he was younger, but even so, I’m not sure what the best option is. If Biden stepped aside, I’m not sure the Democrats’ ability to win in 2024 would go up. Incumbents have an advantage for sure, and there isn’t an obvious choice to replace him. The most important thing at this point is that Trump doesn’t win. Whatever situation maximizes the chance of him losing is good with me.
the aituation is more nuisanced
You got that right!
I agree, Newsome would have been a good candidate. Hell there are half a dozen good candidates that are half Bidens age. If Dems loose, I agree they did it to themselves by letting Biden run again.
Newsom is too Cali.
I see that point of view. Out of curiosity, though, do you think there’s an obvious next in line on the bench? The only person I can think of as a no brainer for electability is Michelle Obama.
Edit: I’m confused as to why my comment has been so controversial. I think it’s because people are misreading my claim. I am saying that Michelle Obama is obviously one of the most electable alternatives to Biden. The polling corroborates this. She is well liked and has 100% name recognition. Seriously, even if you hate her, as an objective empirical fact, she is obviously one of the top contenders for electability.
I am not claiming that she is likely to run or that she wants to run, etc.
Do you think, that maybe, if Biden had chosen to support another candidate, all those “Blue No Matter Who” types would dog pile people not supporting that candidate?
they’ve had four years to figure that out. That they can’t… is either a sign of gross incompetence or of intentionality. either way, at a certain point, you need to stop and realize the way it’s not worked for 30+ years is… not working and maybe it’s time to change things up a bit.
Do you think, that maybe, if Biden had chosen to support another candidate, all those “Blue No Matter Who” types would dog pile people not supporting that candidate?
It depends on how far to the right the candidate is. Get far enough to the left, and they start bein’ like “Party Unity My Ass” and start forming PACs to get Republicans elected
EDIT: I see centrists don’t like being reminded of their proudest moment: trying to get McCain/Palin elected because they didn’t get their first choice in the '08 primaries.
I mean, you’re not entirely wrong for sure. I’m gonna upvote because it’s a really good point, worth thinking about. But I do disagree, somewhat. Trump isn’t McCain. The majority of D voters are looking for someone more left, and the ones who aren’t, are definitely driven by beating Trump. It’s the party leadership that is mostly a problem here. If Biden went rogue and endorsed a leftist, which he wouldn’t do, the DCCC Democrats would be desperately scrambling to undermine that candidate, any way they could, even at the expense of losing to Trump. But that’s also, I think, kind of aside from Ensign Crab’s point, as if Biden had chosen to support another candidate, it would not be a leftist.
It wouldn’t have to be a leftist. Obama wasn’t, and the same people who now scream “no matter who” were screaming “party unity my ass” and raising money to legitimize Sarah Palin at the time.
She does not want to hold public office. As you may recall she wasn’t treated very well.
At the beginning of his term, I’d have said they were lining up Harris; black, woman, young, and they made her highly visible in the first few months. I thought for sure they were going to spend 4 years lining her up for 2024. Biden would gracefully bow out citing his age, ride the 1/2 term election cycle, and badaboom: first female president.
And then she faded away. I don’t know what happened; she didn’t poll well, or do well, or polling showed D chances sank without an old white guy in front… but it makes me kinda sad, because I thought it was a good strategy, and it’d be nice to have a run of diversity in the White House.
She was the least (or very close to it) popular candidate in the primary and people are surprised she didn’t get more popular? She is very much the definition of diversity hire, what she is checks all the boxes, what she’s done is massively unpopular to the majority of democrat voters.
I swear it’s like she freaked out at the idea of the attention and just faded out of existence. It’s so annoying cause she crushed people to get where she is and does nothing to make good use of it
Kamala is just not good for anybody. She has a bad record of imprisoning people with similar skin tones to hers for victimless crimes and not much of substance to offer. The Diversity Hire excuse is not good enough for the office of President, there should be some good content of character within the person at least.
They made her visible with shit no-win issues. She was put on securing voting rights, fixing the border, and recently solving gun violence. Meanwhile the big spend-money bill passes and she’s no where to be seen. I also thought the intention was for her to inherit from Biden, but then they kind of just screwed her over and over.
I’m really hoping Gretchen Whitmer runs in 28 but for this cycle it would probably be Newsome. Sherrod Brown would be great but he is the only person in Ohio that could keep that senate seat blue. Manchin probably runs off Biden isn’t there. Harris and buttigieg are"in line"but personally I can’t stand either.
Tats a really hard question. I guess Newsom or Whitmer if we’re talking politicians that seem to be up and coming. But I can think of many other candidates that I would like to see take the position even if they aren’t as electable. Tammy Baldwin, Mark Kelly, he’ll even Adam Schiff, even though he couldn’t win in the general.
Biden is fine but he looks and sounds horrible quite a bit of the time. There is nothing exciting about his policies and I feel he has way too much baggage.
Gavin would probably be the best pick. But if we’re making up scenarios, hell put Tom Hanks in there or Jon Stewart like that other commenter said.
Really I’ll always be bummed about not having Bernie but that ship sailed as well.
I’m not a super leftist, more of a left leaning no centrist. Still reason, passion, radical change for what a leader could and should be like really get me fired up. The policies are important but we all know that the president is a figurehead as much as it’s a powerful position. I’d rather see someone call the citizens of the country together and be a fighter for even the same type of incremental changes that Biden professes to embrace and maybe have a signature mission.
I do feel that his administration is chock full of smart and professional people. As a leader and a figure he’s just old and gross. Haha.
As other commenters have pointed out, anyone but a conservative would be fine. They all fuckin suck with their evangelical positioning and horrible policies. Trump being the nastiest of the pile.
How do you get MO as a no-brainer? I have never seen any indication at all that she ever wanted the job, and I dont understand why voters are trying to ship her with the office like she’s a CW tv show character.
Oh is that why my comment is so controversial? I specifically said for electability, not on whether she wants the job. The polling corroborates this. She is objectively one of the most well liked political figures in the US today. Note, again, I am NOT claiming she is therefore likely to run.
Most well-liked by Democrat voters
The fascists still insist that she is a trans dude.
Sure, due to increasing partisanship there is literally no candidate that is universally well-liked by both sides. But you don’t need to convince everyone to win an election. Michelle Obama does better on polling than (almost?) any other candidate.
What a short sighted view. Had he came in guns blazing we would have never heard the end of it from Republicans. Dudes done quite a lot without giving the Republicans much ammo.
Wake up call for who? Will the Democrats ever wake up and give their base something to vote for, instead of “hey, the other guys’s worse, whaddya gonna do?”.
Uh… Haven’t we been screaming that Biden is a pretty bad candidate since he took office and begging him to not run for re-election?
This is a surprise to who?
Even Obama said Biden shouldn’t run in 2020, but when it seemed like Bernie Sanders would win, he put in the calls to get other candidates to drop and support Biden, who became the democrats’ only hope.
I’m starting to think that loosing this election is the dnc’s plan.
It’s what the oligarchs want I suppose.
“we don’t want an octogenarian! We want a fascist orange septogenarian!”
I’m sure we can find a 50 year old white man that will allow the oligarchs to steal wealth from everyone! Why can’t we let them run!?
All by design.
Voting for Biden or any Democrat is like voting for a car salesman. They’re there to sell you corporate bullshit. Voting for Trump or any republican is like voting for a used car salesman. They’re trying to sell you old non working pieces of crap or shitty russian knock offs.
The article could have, but didn’t, make the point that our politics and the rhetoric surrounding it today serve the right by subverting faith in democracy, and by exhausting likely voters’ critical faculties:
Yesterday, David Roberts of the energy and politics newsletter Volts noted that a Washington Post article illustrated how right-wing extremism is accomplishing its goal of destroying faith in democracy. Examining how “in a swing Wisconsin county, everyone is tired of politics,” the article revealed how right-wing extremism has sucked up so much media oxygen that people have tuned out, making them unaware that Biden and the Democrats are doing their best to deliver precisely what those in the article claim to want: compromise, access to abortion, affordable health care, and gun safety.
One person interviewed said, “I can’t really speak to anything [Biden] has done because I’ve tuned it out, like a lot of people have. We’re so tired of the us-against-them politics.” Roberts points out that “both sides” are not extremists, but many Americans have no idea that the Democrats are actually trying to govern, including by reaching across the aisle. Roberts notes that the media focus on the right wing enables the right wing to define our politics. That, in turn, serves the radical right by destroying Americans’ faith in our democratic government.
There’s also the tendency for people to assign to the incumbent all of the problems that happen on his watch- at this point, even with material improvements for most people, it’s a hard sell to convince people that they’re better off when every bit of right-wing media is devoted to telling people they’re worse off and the mainstream media just both-sides it like there isn’t one party trying mightily to end American democracy.
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Right wing media hasn’t eliminated the incumbent advantage.
Stop trying to trick people into thinking they want the Dems to weaken their position by officially showing the world that they don’t have full faith in our current president.
Unless you really just don’t realize…
Stop trying to trick people into thinking they want the Dems to weaken their position by officially showing the world that they don’t have full faith in our current president.
What the fuck are you talking about? Where did I say that?
So sad that after so many failings, they still cannot learn! Do what’s right, not what’s personally profitable, you scumbags.
Do you want trump? This is how we get trump.
The “Biden sucks” narrative is a little out of control at the moment. I hope his team pivots to highlight all of his successes around the time Trump is getting tossed in prison. That should hopefully be enough juxtaposition for even the most terminally online idiots in this country to not vote for the meme candidate again.
Part of the problem also is that centrist Dem voters are single issue queens and will refuse to turn out if they don’t get their way on certain issues, and a lot of them are drawing lines in the sand over Israel/Palestine right now. In case anybody hasn’t be paying attention, let me assure you, Trump will not end the war in the middle east. If anything, he will accelerate it. If you’re unhappy about Biden supporting Israel but calling for an end to hostilities, boy are you going to be upset if Trump takes the White House and endorses full-on genocide of Muslims in the west bank and complete Russian supremacy in Ukraine.
The centrists are much happier than the leftists with Biden, I’ve seen more voter apathy among leftists who are tired of voting for center-right candidates while right wing extremists get to vote for fascists that openly support them.
I wasn’t exactly an enthusiastic Biden voter last go-around, I thought he was probably past his prime even in the primaries and think his VP is pathetic, BUT there’s not even a choice going into 2024. You’ve got one guy who already staged one insurrection attempt, is openly planning to turn the US into a fascist dictatorship, fumbled the US’s pandemic response, gave US secrets away rival countries, is likely beholden to one of our biggest global adversaries, had almost no actual accomplishments to speak of during his term, and consistently breaks the law on a daily/weekly basis. And then you’ve got a middle-of-the-road, generic politician who has actually racked up some achievements in the past four years, but has a tendency to put his foot in his mouth from time to time. The Israel-Palestine thing is essentially a continuation of US policy for the past few dozen years, yeah it sucks and wish we could do something more than giving them more weapons and just limply saying, “Could you please kill civilians maybe not so fast, just ease up a little bit?” But yeah, Trump would likely give them the ok to just start nuking Gaza/West Bank and might even offer US nukes for the job. Trying to pressure Democrats to change course on Israel by essentially handing the election over to Trump will not help the Palestinian cause any, the same way that being pissed off about Bernie Sanders and sitting out 2016 basically handed Trump and the GOP a SCOTUS majority (note: I supported Sanders in the 2016 primary).
I don’t see it as a vote for Biden, rather a vote against Trump
Funny enough, there’s research demonstrates that people vote against the voters of a party, and it turns out that people don’t like being called idiots for disagreeing politically with someone, and that they’ll go so far as to vote against the party of voters calling them idiots.
Maybe just something to think about.
Interesting premise, have a link to the research?
It’s party specific though. Republican voters get shit on constantly and never waiver at the vote. It’s people in the center and to the left that will just not show up if they’ve been slighted.
I say this way to often, but I’m ex Republican and we used to joke about how much the lefts bickering handed us elections. The only way to fix this country is to show up and vote dem because you can be damn sure Republicans are going to show up regardless of the candidate they choose.
the amount of republicans who acknowledge trumps treason saying “I’m not sure yet” when asked if they will vote for trump is insane. They are just picking a color at this point. It could be anyone.
I am going to be bugging everyone I know come next November. We need apathetic centrists to vote to prevent more trump, make them know what’s at stake
Isn’t one of the parties’ voters calling people baby killers, groomers/pedophiles, deranged/insane for disagreeing with them politically?
This mentality of picking between worst options isn’t very appealing. Better y’all vote for some third party (even if they don’t win as whole)
that’s almost the worst thing you can do in a two party system, short of not voting at all. It sucks that the system only really allows two parties but throwing away your vote on a third party is not the way to fix it
First-Past-the-Post voting makes this shit suck so hard. Not only does voting third party reduce the threshold for the rest of the field and in particular the party I definitely don’t want in power, that party is most incentivised to prop up my third party candidate. They get to count my vote as win, and with the stakes as high as they are even losing an election cycle means people I care about get seriously hurt.
Why it is a two party system?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_splitting
Our election system is inherently biased against 3rd party candidates. So we’re stuck with two parties.
And money’s involvement in politics just exacerbates everything.
you’re the one advocating for a third party vote, you should know
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Insulting people isn’t going win us change towards a more fair electoral system.
So what you’re trying to tell us, is that we literally have no choice who to vote for.
A lot of people would rather see this increasingly undemocratic system collapse entirely than to try to hold it together with bandaids with no one stopping the cause of the bleeding.
If there’s literally zero way through voting to influence the behavior of politicians without making things worse, then why bother voting or participating in this psychopathic system at all?
And if your response is something like “you’re an idiot, shut up you idiot!”, then you’re just sticking your fingers in your ears and going la-la-la-la-la.
Your job isn’t to demonstrate your virtue through tribal arguments, your job is to understand why people don’t want to vote for Biden.
You just need to stop lecturing and scolding for like, a few dang minutes.
Look at what it was like in Russia after the Soviets fell and tell me how great it will be when the system falls.
A few guys with money swarmed in and snatched up all the goodies, while the people got nothing.
People who were living on pensions, or needed constant medical care, or were too young to work took the brunt of it.
A lot of people would rather see this increasingly undemocratic system collapse entirely
a lot of people love to fantasize but are the first to cry for help when shit hits the fan
Feel free to drive to the mountains, leave all your possessions behind, and enjoy the collapse you clearly want without dooming millions of us to death
I hope you are just young and haven’t gotten to social studies subject in school yet.
We have a system that guarantees a stalemate between two parties.
If we had Ranked Choice Voting, we could actually have third, fourth, fifth etc parties that actually have a chance.
In our reality today a third party vote is like not showing up at all. It wont do a thing.
Appealing? No.
Necessary? Depends what the issues are and how they impact you.
It comes down to game theory. Voting against the lesser evil is advantageous to you because if they win, things will be slightly less bad. If you throw your hands up and say it doesn’t matter, you’re not giving any disadvantage to the greater evil.
My question is who are they asking for these poles?
Democrat leadership has a severe communications problem. I’m not sure why they refuse to fix the disconnect.
Donor$
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Because it’s not a communication problem any more than the GOP had a messaging problem some years ago.
You can’t communicate your way out of shit governance. Democrats just keep getting further and further out of touch with working class Americans.
It’s a good thing Republicans are better for the working class then. GTFO of here with this argument. Our federal gov has 2 ellectible parties, vote for the one that sucks less in the general. Anything else is voting for the Republican candidate.
I’m not a shill either, I fucking hate the democratic party, but I’m also not dumb enough to trash them to a point that I don’t fully support them in the election.
Sure that’s all well and good for a personal ethos POV, but traditionally the Democrat path to victory is to get more people to vote by energizing the voter base. So being out of touch matters immensely and simply not being Trump is not going to engage the people the Dems need to win.
It was never about Dems vs Republicans because Dems don’t win by making Republicans vote for their candidate, Democrats win when they can increase voter turnout.
federal decriminalization of cannabis would be a nice card to play in a year.
He said he would pursue it in Feb. 2021, part of me wonders if he is waiting to drop that bomb so it’s fresh in people’s minds come election time
Too bad that one party being much worse doesnt make the faults of the Democratic party untrue. They havent really been much for real democracy lately have they? They push candidates unfairly. Do back market deals to enrich themselves and keep seats of power. And all while actively help push extreme right wing electorates to make themselves look better.
If someone was murdering children and the other person raping them and we had to pick only one to be in charge of the daycare I’m not picking the murderer but im certainly not gonna sit by and ignore the fact that we are putting someone very wrong for a position in place and im gonna fuckinf raise hell about it.
You cant just say the other person is worse and expect people to just stop talking about the obvious faults that are apparent in your choice.
Maybe their strategy for getting votes could be something better than “the other guy is worse”.
That’s pretty much all they have.
Nobody has ever really been excited about Biden, and there isn’t a clear heir for the Dems either. Bernie is ancient, and while there’s a lot of love for AOC from the base, she’s perceived as too far to the left for the swing voters.
The Republicans are REALLY good at identifying potential threats early and attacking them. They did it with Hilary for decades, and they’ve already started with AOC’s generation. The only one they really missed since the 90s was Obama, but he pretty much came out of nowhere.
That’s absolutely not true. Dems and Biden administration have a lot of good ideas, and they do a lot of good shit, genuinely good, important shit. The thing is, they are terrible at advertising it, and their good shit is not enough because the country deep in trouble, so probably they could do more, and they definitely need to do more. But to say that they don’t have anything is not only untrue, but also very dangerous
The Democrats need a guy in a baseball cap who just, totally gets you bro.
That’s pretty much all they have.
Except for all the good things biden has done. https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/11lohnc/what_biden_has_done_year_three_year_one_two_are/
But the sad reality is that doesn’t generate excitement.
And Trump was so bad that “He’s not Trump” legitimately is the best reason to vote for Biden no matter what his record is, so it’s hard to focus on the rest.
Sadly I think this country is so right wing, that they will literally vote for Adolf Hitler before letting a woman be in charge.
Ok so it starts with you. Volunteer with your local voting rights groups and get people registered to vote. Work their social media teams. Go to high schools and go register those turning 18. Voting rights groups are well known for this useful work.
I really appreciate your call to do something. I personally don’t think we can vote our way out of this, but we all need to do something. Anything. Whatever we can and feel called to do. This isn’t the dress rehearsal.
Well, maybe. If everyone hadn’t voted though in the last midterms etc. or even the most recent races, we’d be doing a lot worse now.
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i wonder sometimes what it would be like to cut my intestines with a pair of scissors
That would be less painful than another trump presidency
I’m just imagining domestic terrorists getting pardons and emboldening more and more. Go to conservative forums, people are out for blood. desperate for a scape-goat like the people of Germany in the 30s
I just read “emboldening” as embroidering 😂
Sorry, I’ll quilt bugging you now.
Go to liberal forums and they will call you a fascist for telling them to arm up and be ready to fight against fascists
“Go far enough left and you get your guns back”
You’d be surprised how many of us have been silently training since the insurrection.
We just don’t advertise it on bumper stickers on our trucks
I sure hope so
The government would work a lot better if all the old fucks stopped trying to make everything a petty competition with winners and losers.
