PizzaMan

Because we Citizens need ways to evaluate the people who are running for office to decide which one you want to give her a vote to.

You’ve had plenty of time to do so for both candidates, as both have recently held office.

Name one presidential election cycle where no debates were done in modern times.

This is moving the goal posts, and a bad way to evaluate the necessity of a given debate.

It would be immoral for someone running for office to not put themselves up for evaluation via debates. No one is owed blind loyalty.

I’m not suggesting blind loyalty. It just seems odd that you’re trying to say the public won’t have a chance to evaluate the options when that clearly isn’t the case. Trump held office from 2016 to 2020, Biden from 2020 to 2024.

If anybody doesn’t already know what these guys are about, then a debate won’t solve that, as they already pay too little attention.

And besides that, the immorality of platforming insurectionists far outweighs whatever immorality could arrive in the form your suggesting.

Right or wrong, a president can’t skip debates.

Why not? There is no law requiring participation to be on the ballot. Strategically its a bad move. Morally it’s a bad move.

Or to put it another way:

The chance of any bill passing is about 30% regardless of what level of public support it has.

The same is not true when you compare the chances to the support the rich have for a bill. When the rich support a bill its far more likely to pass. When the rich oppose a bill, it is far more likely to fail.

So it will be no surprise when this bill unfortunately fails.

And if your electricity isn’t sourced from renewables, you’re just kicking the problem down the road.

Partially. With the exception of maybe coal, fossil fuel energy plants are more carbon efficient than an internal combustion engine can be just due to difference in scale.

The better option is to have it powered through 100% renewable, but it isn’t an automatic lost cause.

Yeah, but with the shit show of a SCOTUS we have now, there are no guarantees. It’d be better to have a guarantee.

Lol. But YOU are the person telling me to vote lesser of Two evils.

I don’t see how that has any relevance to my pointing out how ridiculous the “what if everybody suddenly changed their behavior and did X”.

YOU are the one refusing to change for the better.

You’re the one abstaining from voting, therefore refusing to help make change happen.

I on the other hand am voting for candidates willing to bring election reform to fix the two party system issue.

You’re the problem. you are the reason 3rd party candidates don’t get enough votes

It’s an inherent bias in the FPTP election system we have. I’m not responsible for the inherent mathematical behavioral flaw in the system I never agreed to or created.

Am i being clear?

You’re being clear. I understand perfectly well what you’re saying. But you’re failing to understand how emergent behavior works.

YOU are here telling people not to vote 3rd party…because 3rd party candidates dont get enough votes.

I’m saying don’t vote 3rd party because it splits the vote. That’s the inherent flaw with the current system.

As much as biden would have you believe, a vote against him is not a vote for trump. And i don’t care how many times you say it.

It may not literally be a vote for Trump, but in effect it is. The boomers who vote for Trump are the most reliably voting bloc out there. They WILL be voting for Trump next election.

And standing idly by makes you complicit.

Then why are you accepting it?

I’m not. I’m specifically voting against it where possible.

A vote for biden is support for him to continue doing what he does. How do you not see that ?

Not really. A vote for Biden is a vote against Trump.

50 is bigger than 5. So I’ll vote for 5.

While I can appreciate that. ( although its probably a waste of time)

I’m aware it’s largely a waste of time. That’s why I do it at work when I’m trying to kill time.

You are actively pushing people to vote for a party who absolutely supports the genocide.

The democratic party is split. That’s not good. But in comparison the republicans are at nearly 100% support for the current genocide, plus they are cool with a second one in Ukraine.

Both sides are not equal here.

Biden supports genocide , you support Biden.

You support genocide.

I don’t support Biden. I voted against him in the primaries. I hate his policy just as much as you do. You can vote for a politican without agreeing with 100% of what they do.

I’m doing what I can to reduce the impact of this country’s terrible politics. And that start with making sure the least bad politician is the one that gets in, because doing nothing means the worst option (Trump) gets put in power.

I could just as easily say you support genocide.

You support Trump. Trump supports genocide. Therefore you support genocide.

Have you? Dems and repubs switch control back and forth constantly. We still have genocide supply, abortion bans, no functional student debt relief.

The SCOTUS is republican though. The republican SCOTUS killed Roe. Have you been living under a rock?

What if every person telling me to vote the lesser of two evils, voted independent?

“What if the sky turned purple?”

The sky is not going to magically turn purple.

You are the reason we are stuck in the two party system. You refuse to vote any other way. Lol

Do you not see the fallacy here?

No, it’s an inherent, mathematical bias of the system.

The genocide is happening when I voted blue jackass. Its happening now. Under the dems.

You voted for the genocide supplier and your telling me we all need to do it again.

You’re the one supporting Trump, the guy quoting Hitler.

It is not acceptable or palatable at all.

Or in other words, carboard.

The fact that you look at biden and the genocide that he is directly helping commit, and see that as acceptable, Says a lot more about you than me.

Dude, cardboard is not acceptable. I never said it was. I have explicitly told you that the current situation is not acceptable.

You are a genocide apologist.

Dude I am so close to getting banned from c/conservative for saying Isreal’s genocide is bad. You’ve got it backwards.

And yet everything still sux.

You’re not understanding. Everything sucking is better than everything being made intentionally worse.

You: Would you like to eat dog shit or cardboard. ?

Me : I don’t want to eat either

You: you must choose cardboard or we will have to eat dog shit every day!!!

Fixed it.

Me: What if we found something other than shit to eat?

You have not found something better. There are three options:

1. Cardboard

2. Shit

3. You waste your vote and have to eat shit.

So why you think picking number 3 is the best option is beyond me.

Roe v wade was over turned when dems were in office.

Have you never heard the term “delayed consequences”?

It’s the republican SCOTUS that killed Roe.

I will vote for a candidate that has a platform I can support. If there are none I will not vote

That is effectively a vote for Trump, who will make the Palestinian genocide bigger. Blood will be on your hands.

The genocide is ongoing under the biden administration!!!

Better than trump is still fucking awful. And I don’t support it.

So you’re going to allow Trump to make it a bigger genocide?

Maybe if all the people here telling me too vote biden, didn’t . and instead supported better independent candidates, we really could have change.

That would be really great, but that’s a fantasy. The reality is that we are stuck with a two party system.

But your going to do the same thing we have been doing for decades, and insist I do the same.

I’m insisting that we prevent things from getting worse, and in the background we fix our two party system.

Meanwhile you’re insisting an option that makes things as terrible as possible, as genocidal as possible.

But I will not support the genocide with my vote.

By allowing Trump to win you are effectively voting for an even bigger genocide.

Biden ran on debt cancellation, not a debt forgiveness of loams already eligable for debt relief.

This did nothing for me and thus I will give biden nothing.

You said it was zero but it wasn’t.

Do you? Your only argument is better than trump.

On basically ever single issues Biden is better than Trump I’m at least some way. That’s about as good as it can get in our two party system.

You deserved to be mocked, your playing into the same lesser of Two evils logic they were using with George W bush.

You’re just using ad hominems. And it shows how dogshit your arguments are.

I threw my vote away when I voted for biden. I got exactly zero of the things I wanted

It’s better to not get the things you want than to get fucked by Trump destroying everything.

Not to mention roe v wade got overturned. But that’s totally different because the dems are… Powerless to make real change? or even to keep things from sliding back?

You are really misinformed. Roe got overturned directly as a result of republicans getting voted into power. Trump had a shit load of judicial appointments, including 3 SCOTUS appointments.

The appointment Biden got was only able to maintain the status quo instead of making things worse.

You’re literally blaming the democrats for the republican’s evil actions.

Biden cuts a check for genocide

Bringing this up again and again doesn’t help your argument when I’ve already addressed it.

Dem voter: better than trump, better than trump, better than trump, better than trump.

Have you run out of arguments, leaving you with mocking as your last resort? Or do you have an actual argument here.

I saw exactly zero money for student loans from biden, so that’s how many votes he will get from me.

For you it was zero but it wasn’t zero as a whole like you’re trying to pretend.

Your options are:

1. War crime party + incrementally better change at best, floundering at worst

2. Extra war crime party + active regression/movement towards a Gilead-esc state + destruction of democracy

3. Throw away your vote

The choice seems pretty obvious to me.