I hate that there is not much societal change going on other then moving business around and rebranding.
It’s at least a start. We cannot expect our governments to do more, the rest is on society at large. A good start for more change would be the expulsion of any US nationals from EU countries.
We can imagine the end of the world. We can imagine the collapse of society, but we can no longer imagine the end of capitalism.
If you wonder why all the bureaucrats suddenly turned anti-globalist (while 20 years ago it wasn’t so), that’s because they saw how powerful a domestic centralized system makes their kind.
And 20 years ago it wasn’t so, because they really had to kill all sprouts of such domestic systems.
It’s the old Chinese\Roman\whatever game, where bureaucrats and troops were, for different events, moved further from their home provinces and old assignments or closer. Only what’s happening is the opposite of the best course of action in that game, we have a weak emperor, no emperor in fact.
So - 20 years ago choosing American companies made European bureaucrats more powerful. Now they are powerful enough to prefer domestic suppliers of all these services, now they can control those new suppliers and become even more powerful.
The world is always in change.
Finally!
Yes please
GNU-Taler is ready
This is a CBDC that she wants, something they have been talking about for years. Likely they want this because many European countries wont be able to survive higher interest rates caused by aging demographics, as the US high interest rates suck up global liquidity making rolling over debt more expensive.
They will be able to slow inflation using the programmability of the money to prevent you from surpassing your allotted climate credits, as they are already forcing companies to measure their c02 usage in a system called the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive (CSRD). They will also be able to increase inflation via issuing expiring stimulus, which would allow them to issue stimulus without worrying about the 18 month lag.
What Europe also wanted was a global climate change system, where they collect tax revenue from carbon credits, which would be charged to foreign emitters. Trump recently front run this with his own tariff system, following project 2025’s idea of eliminating all international tariffs. Though countries like Canada are talking about joining Europes climate plan instead, I think all countries will have to decide where to hand the keys to their domestic economic policy.
I would like this. I enjoy playing hentai games, but MasterVisa bans or alters the games by denying their services to creators and stores alike. This is an affront to free speech.
Let’s not forget, they Almost forced Onlyfans to shut down because they were going to cut them off from their payment system.
??? relevance to parent comment?
Overruled.
For real? What the f that’s absurd
Yup. For example, the game “Seeds of Chaos” had to change their introduction on account of demons trying to corrupt the protagonists through blackmail, and the removal of the minotaur scenes.
Visa and MasterCard are why we have never had a blockbuster minotaur movie
Yeah they can exert a lot of influence
California, Oregon, Washington and Hawaii would also like to request EU status and new non facist payment methods
The Cali data companies will be in for a shock when they suddenly have to comply with any regulation, let alone the GDPR
They got CCPA
What I imagine that to contain:
-
USA! USA! USA!
-
Communism bad!
-
See 1 and 2
Except if you’ve done any privacy work you’d know that GDPR and CCPA are accounted for simultaneously in almost every case, so they end up being equivalent in reality.
Aren’t EU technically a Social Democracy ?
The EU is a bureaucratic organization with some purely symbolic democratic rituals. Governments (not citizens) of member countries really affecting it are supposed to be democratic, but at this point they are just OK, mostly. Nothing good to compare with.
Anyway - all these names are as meaningless as flags. Every decision made defines a system. You might call something a social democracy, but through 1, 2, 3 decisions overnight it’s suddenly something different, if there was a critical point.
I wish.
You should look up “Parliament of the European Union” for more information, if you’re actually interested. Currently the EVP (conservative party) is the largest, and overall there is a majority of centre-right to extremist right parties. The current President of the EU Comission (basically EU government) is Ursula von der Leyen, a member of the EVP.
It’s been a long time since the EU was lead by social democrats, and even then, they were in a coalition with conservatives.
So no, the EU is neither technically nor actually a social democracy
The EU is not a country.
Some countries in the EU currently have or have had Social Democratic governments, but mainly they have governments which are Neoliberal, though a milder form than the US: generally the mainstream Rightwing around this parts has policies which are to the left of the Democrat Party in the US, though not by much, so for example nobody has a Healthcare system which is as bad as the US - even the ones with a Health Insurance based system have way more rules and consumer protections around it - and even in the worst countries Public Transport is better than in the in US.
Then again at least one country in the EU - Hungary - currently has Fascism whilst the other ones which are said to have Far-Right governments (such as Italy) politically sit between the US Democrats and Republicans.
In the things which are the responsibility of the EU (i.e. trade-related subjects), the EU is significantly more pro-consumer than the US, with for example the precautionary principle - i.e. proven safe before allowed, rather than the US’ method of allowing until proven unsafe - being used for chemical substances which people tend to come in contact with, and more broadly with consumers having way more rights all across the EU than they have in the US (were it massively depends on the State) and with stricter rules when it comes to pollution and more broadly Environmental damage.
I supposed that in the things which fall under the responsibility of the EU, it tends to be sort of half-way between Neoliberal and Social-Democrat, for example it’s very Neoliberal when it comes to Finance, but it’s Social Democrat when it comes to consumer rights and protections, especially for things like food, though even there it’s sort of somewhere between lax and strict in regulatory terms. I suspect this is due to different countries caring more about different domains and hence the politics of countries which care more about a specific domain getting more strongly imprinted in legislation at an EU level so it ends up reflected into very different political spins for different trade domains.
That said, Nordic countries (notoriously Finland) and France and Spain and Baltics have pretty right-wing national identities, not even speaking about Poland, and Italy, eh, has seemingly harmless morons on top. Greece too, but frankly neighboring with Turkey it’s normal to be nationalist, having an example of a really inferior culture. Can’t blame even Armenians for that (while in other regards their pride for a mountain village with crooks and thugs on top seems kinda too big.)
I didn’t say EU was a country, who do you think I am ? An American ?
Then why did you ask what the current policies of 27 countries’ governments were as if there were only one?
-
You forgot New Jersey.
Do it! Canada will come play too.
We could add credit cards to the Interac system.
That’s a great idea. I’d welcome a new option!
Does using Google wallet give any fee to Google?
No but I stopped using apple/Google pay to stop giving them data. It’s a choose your poison though they stop the stores from collecting data as your card keeps changing.
They don’t get paid directly, just with your data.
Would be spectacular if they make an alternative that does not rely on commercial banks so that having a for-profit bank account isn’t required to be able to pay for things electronically. Just like you don’t need that with cash. This is something central banks can provide to the citizens of their country. If commercial banks want people’s money, they better give an incentive. Currently they get it just so people can access the electronic payment systems.
But if course that’s unlikely because commercial banks won’t just let themselves be cut out of the sweet deal they got now.
At least most European banks are happy to cut out the American middlemen (Visa and Mastercard) since they’re eating part of the cost, and we already have the infrastructure in place and working, it’s called “instant SEPA bank transfer”, most newer accounts offer it for free. The problem is the lack of political will to accelerate that indipendence and to stop hemorraging money (roughly 0.5% per transaction!)
Then as people learn to use it they’ll hopefully also stop using Paypal (another American company) when sending money to someone, or getting tracked in general every single time they use their debit card.
agreed, this is really low hanging fruit for fixing society in general- services (banking but also insurance (remember Obama’s failed public option)) that everyone needs but are privately run should have competition run by the government that is publicly funded and run with the goal of break-even instead of for profit.
Let the for profit ones try to find reasons to exist then!
Other candidates for a public option: ISPs, ride-sharing services, credit rating agencies, etc etc
There’s also credit unions.
Knowing your nationality, some Canadian provinces do have a public bank too, like ATB in Alberta.
Yeah, I’m using Meridian in Ontario. While credit unions in Ontario are regulated as nonprofits, I’d still say it’s probably better if Bank of Canada provided a public chequing account and payment processing since it’ll still lower the base cost of participating in the payment system for everyone.
Digital euro is the solution
I hope Canada and Mexico can join. It’s time to start bankrupting murican companies.
Most card transactions in Norway go through a local system called BankAxept, and have for decades. A lot of Norwegians don’t even know, because the same cards also support VISA, and they think that’s what they’re using.
Same thing in France with CB. I’ve only recently understood why I was asked to choose between “CB” and “Visa” when paying by card online, when both were written on my card. Actually, when I got my first card as a teenager, I was a bit nervous about that, I was scared of “making the wrong choice” when paying online; I rememberd asking adults around me what that was about and how to choose which one to select, and not one of them could give me an explanation, they told me that there was no difference and that I should just pick one at random. Now I feel kinda bad about all the times that I chose Visa, because from what I understand their fees are generally higher for the seller.
Same in Germany with the girocard system. Key feature is that there’s no real intermediary, it’s a standard the banking sector came up with to easily authorise ordinary bank transfers. Online shopping was never an issue in Germany push come to shove you just wire them the money.
And I have no fucking idea why the EPI is launching a whole phone-based system instead/before standardising debit card infrastructure. That app offers literally nothing that I can’t already do with my card and bank app on my phone short of a wallet and why the hell would I want that I already have a giro account. And why would I want to send money to a telephone number instead of an IBAN. What kind of stuff are those people on that they think that’s a feature.
But at least the general structure of the EPI is similar to how girocard came about: A consortium of banks, public, cooperative, private, coming up with interoperability standards. Germany has like 1400 banks (and that’s after a lot of mergers), most of them only serving a district or larger town and surrounding villages for those there was never an alternative to working with each other and the over-regional banks jumped on to not be left out.
Sometimes, all you need is some marketing. E.g. it’s been possible to print out a QR code with your account info so you can receive transactions at a flea market for ages (in lieu of having your phone display it and people scanning from there), and ever since SEPA instant payment it’s basically cash, as far as the seller is concerned.
My main takeaway from the comments on this post is that basically all of Europe solved this a long time ago at the domestic level, but that international interoperability is lacking.
That’s the state of literally everything in Europe.
Hey now, we were able to standardize the curvature of cucumbers.
Maybe there was a more important need for it. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Standardise*
European spelling is superior to US spelling!
No, not all of Europe solved this. The payment systems they made are for internet payments with instant confirmation. Many European nations are still on the Visa Debit or Debit Mastercard systems for card payments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maestro_(debit_card)
https://www.docs.pay.sibs.com/payment-methods/
Ideal, bizum, bancontact, cartes bancaires, Mbway are all euro based. I wonder why they are not interoperable.
I get the phone based system. People remember their phone number and email address, they do not remember their bank account details. It’s a lot easier to initiate the transfer in the moment if it’s based on something the recipient can just tell you. QR codes are an acceptable workaround for a small vendor, but not really ideal for paying back the friend who paid for lunch.
Pretty much every country has something like that ready or in the works. Venmo is huge in the US, Vipps (which uses the aforementioned BankAxept in the backend) is emerging as the de-facto standard for small transfers in Norway.
It was a bigger deal in the US than elsewhere due to how hard it is to do bank transfers there, but the rest of the world is also very keen on the concept.
It was a bigger deal in the US than elsewhere due to how hard it is to do bank transfers there,
Is it? Now I’m curious. Care to elaborate?
Except for apps like PayPal, Venmo, Zelle and Google Wallet, all of which allow you to transfer money to an email address or phone number, there is no convenient electronic way to transfer money from individual to individual in the US. The only other real alternative is handing over cash or writing a check. You can technically do a wire transfer, but those are really designed for stuff like buying a house or something, and usually either cost money, take days to settle, or usually both.
I can’t speak for every other country, but in Norway we’ve at least for a couple of decades taken for granted the ability to just initiate a transfer of money to someone else’s bank account. You just enter the number and amount in your Internet Bank, and it gets transferred free of charge either overnight or instantly. It’s how we’ve done everything my whole adult life.
In the US, the prevalent way to pay rent is still to either write out a physical check or enter the numbers from a check into some web interface which is then somehow able to suck money out of your account. Sometimes a bank will offer to mail the check on your behalf, but it’s still very much a check.
I did not know that and I think it’s wild that the largest economy in the world still operates on such prehistoric methods.
It’s not in the incumbent oligopoly’s interest to innovate.
I think this is more that American exceptionalism makes them incapable of getting inspiration from other countries, so they end up doing something entirely different. If it’s better, the rest of the world adopts it as well, and if it’s inferior, the rest of the world points and laughs.
E-check is definitely in the point and laugh category, while payment apps based on phone number or email like Venmo are getting copied by various other countries. Granted, I don’t think the US was first with phone-based payments, various developing countries in Africa have had it for ages. But I do think they came up with it independently, because they habitually ignore innovation done anywhere else.
I know that both Portugal and The Netherlands also have their own local systems, but you can’t really use the system of one country in another country.
The only country in Europe which I know for sure doesn’t have its own local payments system is the UK, though it would not surprise me if there are others.
What’s really needed is some sort of pan-european payments system, ideally one which also gets accepted in the rest of the World. The closest we have to it at the moment in the EU is that you can do normal (so called SEPA, if I remember it correctly) bank transfers to any account at any bank in the EU, all for the same cost (generally free) independently of it being in the same country or across borders, and quite a number of retailers all over Europe do accept payment via bank transfer, but that’s not an actual payment system, it’s a bank transfer system that you sometimes can use to pay an online order from a retailer.
As things stand now, if for example from my Portuguese bank account I want to buy something from an online store in Germany, the payment has to go via Visa (Mastercard isn’t really common in Portugal)
with all the transactions all around the world can you imagine the money they’re making by doing literally nothing and if this move is successful how much money they stand to lose? I would be surprised if they were not literally talking to hitmen right now.
I can recommend the Aquired Podcast Episode. A 3h long Story of how VISA became the world leader and how much profit they make year over year. It is craaaaazy. We need to get rid of Visa and other US bases payment providers ASAP!
Back before crypto because a speculation vehicle we very nearly got rid of all this bullshit. Unfortunately it just wasn’t convenient and widespread enough before people decided holding on to hashes forever was gonna make them rich.
All for it! The orange fucking idiot is fusing the EU.
