I own guns now. I never did or even considered it until the election results in November.
A superpower by definition cannot really be a rogue state. A “rogue state” is a political label applied by dominant powers to states that defy the international order. For example Iran or North Korea are considered rogue states because they defy the international order. What is “the international order”?
Well, it’s the combination post-WW2 institutions created by none other than the US. The UN, IMF, NATO, etc. They set the norms of “legitimate” behavior. When the US participates in military interventions, economic sanctions, and other aggressive actions it’s framed as upholding “rules-based order” whereas identical actions by weaker states get them condemned with the label as “rogue states”.
To call the US a rogue state is to misunderstand power. Hegemony is the ability to define reality, not just defy it. In this way, the US has always been a rogue state in the sense that it does whatever it wants regardless of the international norms. I mean, just look at the mid 1900s and its actions in Latin America. It was involved in about a dozen states toppling governments and supporting military dictatorships- including sponsoring the genocide of natives in Guatemala.
Americans for the most part are only dimly aware there’s an outside world in the first place. The amount of covering up that needs to be done is minimal.
It figures it takes someone calling themselves “CanadaPlus” to actually see the actual question and answer it.
Everyone else is answering about how aware Americans are about what’s happening, but the question was about whether Americans were aware of how the world perceived the US. The answer, of course, is “no, Americans have no idea because Americans consume almost no non-American media”.
This kind of question coming up a lot is why I chose the name, haha.
I had a friend that that looked like they were offended when they found out Australian Idol was a thing and it wasn’t just in America.
Yep. The concept that there’s a symmetry between countries is a few degrees of separation away from many Americans, I guess. It’s not weirder to have an Australian Idol than an American one. I’ve also had conversation where they assume people in other countries are patriotic for America. Like, even in the first world we all sit around wishing we were American.
Famously, many (most?) of them can’t even identify the continents on a map. I’d be interested to see Chinese tested the same way, since I’ve heard they’re on the same level of insularity, being another massive superpower.
It wasn’t even originally an American thing, it’s from the UK.
Wait, is it just called “Idol” there?
Pop Idol.
Exactly. Hence the name distinguishing it as the “American” one… People (Americans?) are so dumb.
Leftists, of course. Liberals will continue to be in denial for the foreseeable future. Conservatives just dgaf.
There was never a point in US history that it was not a rogue state. If you believe there’s a period it wasn’t, you simply do not know enough history about the time period you’re referring to.
Or more likely, you believe white lives to be more valuable, and you take offense now that the US is directing their usual behavior towards white Europeans.
Yup.
What we are seeing now is a critical inflection point for liberals: do they do honest introspection and start to apply real criticism to the history of the US, or do they cover their ears and claim Trumpism is an aberration for which they have no reasonable explanation.
To put it simply, liberals now have a choice between
“Damn, this is really the outcome of the american political project, huh? How did we get here?”
And
“Trumpist fascism is un-American, and I am clueless as to how it took hold, but I am going to continue to vote blue no matter who!”
If the amount of liberals on .world bizarrely harkening back to the “good old days” of the founders, Reagan, Obama, and even dubya is any indication, I suspect most of them have gone with the second option.
Liberals are just as much reactionaries as conservatives. They simply disagree on which status quo they’d like to return to and who is acceptable to exploit.
the other guy pretty clearly meant liberal in a social & political philosophy sense and not a “liberal v conservative” modern american political theater one. i won’t speak for ferrous but i would imagine that’s why you didn’t get a reply of sorts yet. it’s kind of surprising and unsettling the amount of upvotes your comments have relative to each other but then again it seems reading comprehension is a skill more and more left to a select few.
like, anyone from .ml probably means liberal in that sense but in the particular context of this comment he definitely did and i’m confused why you’re getting upvoted when your reply is nonsensical considering liberalism is not diametric to conservative ideology within most frameworks.
sorry not to be a chode but wishy washy symbols like the ambiguity of the word “liberal” in modern discourse is a large part of what has landed us here in the first place.
[…] now that the US is directing their usual behavior towards white Europeans.
That’s nothing new, that’s happened before.
Then explain the shock coming from Europe.
Its been a long time since then?
No, it hasn’t. The US is waging a proxy war that requires the EU to bear the consequences. They even destroyed one of your pipelines, and caused one of the worst environmental disasters in history right off the coast, and Europe didn’t make a peep about it.
That’s why I wrote “…now definitely a rogue state”. Not that there was much of a question before but now it should be obvious even to US-citizens.
Based on the pro Trump people in my life, I’ve seen two classes:
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Those in denial and ignorant in general (don’t really follow the news), who don’t believe for example that Trump is deporting people without due process, and blatantly violating the law and constitution.
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Those who are so sucked into the MAGA own-the-libs circle-jerk that even when presented with the facts and proof of Trump doing something blatantly illegal, will usually retort with something like “oh so when the Democrats do it it’s okay, but now the Trump is doing it it’s wrong??? You fucking communist!”
Both I believe are the result of being fed far right propaganda by YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, etc. It’s the only explanation I have. These aren’t random people I don’t know. These are people I love and have known my whole life.
It hurts to see, and I don’t see a way to help them that doesn’t involve ruining those relationships. I avoid talking about politics around them because I know it’s going to make me resent them, and I don’t want that.
I have the experience. Close friends consumed by the alt-rightosphere. These are (arguable were) caring people who’d stop and help strangers stranded on side of the road. People I considered like minded. But now it’s “Democrats are pedophiles, Clinton flew with Epstein and here’s how the election was stolen” (the irony is not lost on me).
Trying to discuss this constructively just doesn’t work. It always ends with 😡👉"Your information is wrong and you’re being brainwashed"👈😔 you can show them all of the stuff but their eyes glaze over and they’re just thinking about how to find an article that either: Spins how the negative thing is actually good or just outright false.
You are just a bit right, because you base your politics opinion on few, literally just few examples that you know for the entire population. I’m not saying youre wrong, but well, your experience might suggest right people are caring, while left is not, while one’s experience might be the same but for left people. But definitely and we can see that in different surveys etc. that right people are just ignorant. They don’t care what their leaders do as long as it doesn’t impact them, and why is that bad? Because exactly the same way Hitler took the dictatorship. I believe both, left and right people are good, it just depends on a specific individual if hes not good, but the important thing in democracy is you have to care, no matter at which side you are, but you have to care about politics, and let the information in, not stay untouched when clearly basic humans right are being invaded.
Note, that this isn’t actually the question. It’s not whether Americans are aware of what’s happening, it’s about whether Americans are aware of how the rest of the world perceives the US.
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We been a rogue state for 100 years
I see the American media as softballing fascism, or they’re just outright complicit.
No one will call shit what it is, and every fucking thing in the news needs to be both-sides-ed.
This doesn’t help with the less educated grasping these basic concepts, nor does the massive stigmatization of intelligence and critical thinking, nor does the attacks on institutional education.
There’s laws constantly being passed in the form of ‘vouchers’ to drain public school funds and funnel American kids into Christian indoctrination, and our public schools are now dramatically underfunded.
So I guess I understand why more than half the population just straight up ignores politics. because reality here is really depressing.
To be fair, this is pretty similar to the way American press covered the rise of German fascism at the time
As is typical for the US, 1/3 are deeply aware, 1/3 are in full “patriotic” support, and 1/3 are too distracted by the latest TikTok dance to notice.
In a burning house with three people, one is fighting the fire, one is pouring gasoline on everything and one is on the couch watching TV.
Let’s add a 4th person in there, someone who thinks they’re helping by doing nothing but yelling that the fire isn’t allowed to burn things
More like yelling at the one fighting the fire because they’re getting water everywhere
“If you had just picked a better water bucket, we wouldn’t be in this mess. It’s your fault if the house burns down.”
If more of you would have voted for Jill Stein, we wouldn’t be in this mess!
/s in case that wasn’t obvious
It’s you. They’re talking about you.
Please, elaborate…
Democrats are the ones criticizing the ones actually trying to put out the fire but doing jack shit about it.
What’s more, they’re the ones who doused the house with gas not a half a year ago, and whenever they’re not delighting in the terror going “oh I bet you must love it, you didn’t vote for the lady with the matches and now you got the guy with the flamethrower” they’re passing his budgets, they’re complying with Musk’s unelected goons, they’re getting on with his Gaza agenda and largely silent about the protestors getting kidnapped.
Asking for donations isn’t resisting, it’s ransom.
I really don’t like how y’all just described everybody
I wish 1/3 of the USA were trying to put the fire out… The majority of this third are just watching in horror how the fire consumes their house
They are really earnestly and as hard as they can trying to put the raging fire out with a cheap children’s water pistol that isn’t working very well.
100% this. Every other memper of my family voted for this. I do my best, but they’re so blinded by the media and their own bias that it’s almost impossible to convince them on even 1 topic.
Its incredibly sad and frustrating actually
The fact that you are there and aware of what is happening to your country is hope for change. I always sound doom and gloom in my posts but I’m also hopeful for the change. I’m Indigenous Canadian and my entire life has always felt like failure in everything me and my family has been exposed to for generations. The greatest thing I learned from all of it is to never give up … even in the face of overwhelming odds.
And Lemmy is disproportionately representative of the 1/3 who are aware.
If you look at the comments on a random public social media post, you’ll find the delusional third or half.
It basically boils down to where they’re getting their information, or rather, whether it’s information or “information”. A large swath of the population is so propagandized by right wing rag “media” that they are functionally incapable of rational thought.
I don’t think that applies here. 1/3 in each group is fair for domestic matters. But, OP is asking about perceptions of the US by people in other countries.
In that case, even the 1/3 that is opposed to what’s happening will contain a lot of people with no idea how the rest of the world sees the US. For example, of the 1/3 of Americans who deeply oppose what’s happening, what fraction do you think actually read Le Monde or Deutsche Welle, or are even aware that they have an English-language service?
And, the 1/3 that is fully supportive of what’s happening will contain a lot of people who think that this is improving how the rest of the world sees the US. Sure, some will be aware and will still be defiant in the face of how the rest of the world is reacting. But, others will be watching Fox News or Newsmax and will hear propaganda that convinces them that the rest of the world admires and respects the US more than ever for taking a decisive stand against the deep state.
So, as with anything involving something happening outside the US, I’d guess more than 50% of Americans have no idea what the rest of the world is thinking.
I think there’s another 1/3 - maybe at intersection of them all.
A great many people in shock, and don’t realise this is just America mask-off.
It’s standard American foreign policy and has been for 60 years. The wars they have started, the regime change, it’s all standard. Ask anyone in South America or the Middle East.
am from south america, can confirm. my country was couped by the cia, and we are still suffering from the consequences.
*100 years … America has been doing this since before any of the world wars
should have voted democrat i guess
Many Americans are unaware of the problems due to media censorship.
However they’re creating so many problems that even those with blinders on are seeing this shit.
Those of us who aren’t Team Orange or completely oblivious know, I think. An appalling number of people are completely disconnected from what’s happening, and a disgusting number either don’t care or love it.
I lost the last shred of faith I had in the American people with this election. I delight in the suffering of every shithead that either voted Trump, 3rd party, or not at all. ESPECIALLY the protest voters, conservative minorities, and rural idiots stupid enough to think Trump cared about them or was somehow a better because they didn’t like something the Biden administration did. My schadenfreude levels are hitting new, bitter peaks there.
The Biden administration aided and abbetted genocide. The American monoparty would be proceeding exactly as planned under genocide Harris as it is doing now, just slightly more slowly.
BoTH sIDes ARe tHe SaMe!!!1!
Now you’re getting it!
Ah, I was mocking you. Kind of makes it less fun when I have to explain it, but considering my audience it’s to be expected.
If you write the truth in spongebob case it doesn’t make it any less true
Depends. Everyone who voted against Trump knows this and it’s probably why they did but most non voters and maga are still ignorant.
The last administration proposed sanctioning the ICC
The average American voter is hilariously unengaged. Many of them read at an 8th grade level at best. We’re suffering the consequences of an education system that has been tragically underfunded for generations, and our media institutions are thoroughly compromised. Because of this, media literacy may as well be non-existent. The worst actors in our public institutions know this and have chosen to capitalize on it. Foreign interests recognize the obvious weakness in our social fabric, and they have been taking advantage of it to great success.
We are completely lacking the most crucial part of any functional democracy - an informed electorate. We have the least qualified people making the most important decisions.
The United States is effectively a failed state. Many of us recognize this, but our options for addressing the problem are limited. We not only have to dislodge the largest defense structure the world has ever seen, but we have to somehow fix the plague of weaponized stupidity that is conservative culture in order to ensure the worst humans don’t end up in powerful positions.
If you have any suggestions on how to start fixing that, I’m all ears.
For starters, understanding that American fascism is not the result of voters simply not being informed enough. The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument… then they’d see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
As we devolve deeper and deeper into fascism, it has been frustrating watching liberals flail to try and understand how the devolution is happening: is it because people are uneducated? Is it because of Joe Rogan’s podcasts? Is it because of Russian spies? Is it because Trump has started a cult? Is it because Fox News? Is it because lead was used in gasoline 50 years ago? Is it because we use lead water pipes? Is it because of Ronald Reagan? All of this waffling to avoid the hard questions. I.e, “is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?”
If you fail to start thinking about this devolution into fascism in terms of history, class, and material conditions, you’re always going to be hopelessly confused about the structures and frameworks that allow fascism to fester.
Well, I don’t think you’re wrong about an informed/educated populace not being sufficient to overcome fascism, but I have a hard time seeing us overcoming it without some level of education. Though obviously, the type of education matters (e.g., how kids are taught about Columbus is probably the most egregious example of a failure by the public school system to educate)
You educate those around you, not give up on them because “it’s not worth it” you fight for this even if it means your own mother disowns you.
The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument… then they’d see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
Well said. And honestly, it’s even counterproductive, because that assumption is a core reason why people view the establishment Left as patronizing and elitist.
It also reminds me of one of my favorite Onion videos: https://youtu.be/lpzVc7s-_e8 (I like Judith Butler, and I’ve even read some of Gender Trouble, but the premise and execution just gets me in stitches every time.)
is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?
No, but it is the only logical conclusion of a nation that continues to venerate those genocidal landowners as heroes.
Hey now, I resent that. I read at a ninth grade level!
If you’re really going to sit here and pretend that none of the things I mentioned play a clear and obvious role in our current situation, I don’t even know where to start with you.
Strawman. Never did I say that the things you mentioned dont play a role in facilitating fascism.
Poor education, MIC, captured media, sure… all of these things facilitate fascism.
My point is that your analysis does not get at the heart of how fascism arises or why america is going full throated fascist in recent years. Why do we have poor education? Why do we have a bloated MIC? Why has our mainstream media been captured? Why is conservatism increasingly in fashion?
You’re not going to get to the heart of these questions by ignoring class. You’ll especially fail to answer these questions if you just blame some nebulous concept of “conservatism” wholesale. Youve correctly identified the symptoms, but you still need to take the next step w/ class-based, material analysis.
It festers because people bitch online then go break bread with their fascist Republican families.
Which has made those of us that will say something the bad guys (look at how they label themselves victims of words now).
If you do not fucking say something to those people EVERY CHANCE YOU FUCKING GET this is your fault!
They HATE shame. THEY GOT HERE BY BEING SHAMED BY THE GOP. SHAME THE FUCK OUT OF THEM! Take the damn flag back and prove they are the anti Americans already!
No, I think you missed my point entirely. No amount of shame, facts and logic, or blasts will stop fascism.
Until regulatory agencies stop being captured, until people can own homes, until people can retire, until people can get healthcare, until people can get childcare, the fascist devolution will continue.
You’re still clinging to this ultra liberal idea that the “marketplace of ideas” is what ultimately turns the wheel of history and politics. It’s the idea that politics and history is driven by individuals taking ideological stances, and that the only way to change history is to change minds. This could not be more incorrect. I really encourage you to do some introductory reading into Marxism - which historically has been the greatest defense against fascism, as well as has the most comprehensive explanation of how fascism happens. Wage Labor and Capital is a great start.
Foreign interests recognize the obvious weakness in our social fabric, and they have been taking advantage of it to great success.
First step is to learn to stop blaming other countries for America’s failure.
Just ignored the entire first part of that, didn’t you champ?
Parents set the stage for valuing education. If there is no value on it at home it will be reflected in the kids and it will then be passed through the generations. Generation after generation of barely getting by and failure.
While I disagree with the “failed state” label (go look at Haiti) it certainly isn’t setting itself up for future greatness.
They are so unengaged because so many people spent years forcing the rest of us to “be polite” and not being up anything political at all for fear it would rouse MAGA from their slumber.
The amount of times I started to say shit and got jumped on by shit libs to protect the feefees of MAGA is uncountable. My own fucking husband does this to me while his maga family had the nerve to bitch me out for not having a baby yet (this was most recent). You all FEAR those losers so much you let them do this to us!
GO SAY SOMETHING TO YOUR FUCKING RELATIVES ALREADY. God damn GO SAY SOMETHING TO THOSE FUCKING TRAITORS UNTIL THEY DISOWN YOU OR LISTEN. DO IT FOR YOUR COUNTRY ALREADY!
Imagine reading some fiction book, like fantasy or something like that.
You see a state that was created by genocide, which was continued until there was barely anyone left to kill, which state then became world hegemon, took control over nearly entire planet economy and proceeded to find new targets for genocide, ecocide, invasion, looting and murdering every political opponent.
You would think it’s caricaturally evil, worse than Mordor.
And here you ask “they are now definitely a rogue state”? Now?
True. But what I mean above all is that the US is now more unpredictable in terms of foreign policy than ever before.
Yeah. The usa has always been relatively evil… But also fairly predictable .
Also worth noting that pretty much every country ever has been evil, with a few notable exceptions —of which none of the eu are included in
Brits: phew, at least we’re safe!
What’s poor old Luxembourg ever done to offend you so?
A billionaire tax haven where over 50% of the labourers are non-citizens?
Probably something to do with money? Just a guess 🤷♂️
It sure does look more unpredictable, but is it really? They continue basically everything except trying to wrap up Ukraine and fuck up and loot Europe, but marxists were saying this will happen years ago already (and regardless of which government will be at helm), so it is by no means unpredictable. The one thing that changed is the presentation, it is more honest but more erratic, though it is again what anyone could simply predict looking at previous Trump term and process of building his staff in preparation to the last elections.
Fuck off with this fucking shit. I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland. I never owned fucking slaves. I wasn’t even considered white until a few decades ago. I am so sick of this shit from you people not understanding that so many Americans are here because fascism forced us here too.
I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland.
No, you’re there because the people already there decided to let your family in.
Them being in a position to let you in js a crucial factor. And the reason their society got to control that is because of what they had done to other people beforehand.
No one is asking you to feel guilt and no one is blaming you. But facts are facts.
You still benefit from white privilege. If it weren’t for your pale skin, you most likely would’ve been deported or murdered before you even tried. Your privilege in USA is still based on your skin tone. Now you’re supporting fascism here with you white victimhood story. Everybody in USA has some sad tale. Fuck off with your bullshit, yt.
That person is delusional. If North America were a group of Indigenous nations it wouldn’t have been a major immigration target for European refugees.
I see a lot of people starting gardens or looking to getting chickens to be as self sufficient as they can. Many are holding off on large purchases to save in case “something happens”. People around me who were never interested in firearms and in fact were generally opposed to them are starting to arm themselves at a rapid pace.
Good luck with the gardens. I’ve never really been a fan of US gun laws, but now it all seems strangely sensible.
This is the literal, specific scenario 2A was intended to counter. We’ll have to see over the next few years if it works as intended.
I’m not sure thats right. I think the 2A was written in order to enable the US to be able to organize militias to defend itself against foreign invasion as, at the time, the idea of the colonies supporting a standing army was impossible.
It’s both.
Your reply to osaerisxero was correct and made more sense before he ninja-edited.
People invoke 2A usually lie, and the reason to arm themselves is to kill dark skinned people they don’t like.
this was always the reason for 2a: empowering white settlers to “defend” their land (stolen from indigenous people at gunpoint) and property (African slaves held in captivity at gunpoint).
The US don’t have a few years it will probably not exist at the end of the years if nothing is done
Never underestimate how much damage a dying empire can do when lashing out trying to hold on to power. The world needs to prepare to deal with the US for decades if necessary.
A empire will exist for sure but it won’t be the US anymore
It will be called that. But that’s kind of already happened.
In most of the US they have HOA who likely forbid such things for an absurd fear that a slightly uglier house down in your street will tank your property’s value.
Interesting, but not surprising that this doesn’t really answer the question. The question was about whether Americans were aware of how the US was perceived outside its borders.
I bought several fire arms recently and asked the local gun shops in a very generic sense about how sales were. All three claimed traditional winter slow sales and reported no uptick in sales. Also the local pawn shop guy has a ton of guns, there aren’t any ammo shortages, all the paper work is sailed through no delays, the conceal and carry course I was required to take to carry a pistol was no where near full and the instructor said things are slow (but his class did kind of suck it was just the soonest one near me); that’s been my experience the last three months.
I’ve always been interested in firearms, but not interested enough to convince my wife we should own any, well, she’s convinced now! and I never had to say anything, so I agree with your comment.
