Trump lied, while Biden got his facts straight. Clearly, an old man with our best interests at heart is better than a cheap imitation of Hitler.
As many others are commenting that’s, unfortunately, not the concern here. It’s theater, and he bombed and his lapses will be broadcast ad nauseum to drive that impression to the impressionable
Anyone trying to spin this positively is delusional. This was a very, very damning performance by Biden. It doesn’t matter what Trump said or didn’t say. Dems are saying it was bad, donors are saying it, even onlookers from abroad.
Dems sticking with an octogenarian was dumb. It’s like lessons never learned. They fight the progressive’s to defend the status quo. Scaring people about democracy being on the line may not cut it, even though it’s absolutely true. People are already tired and struggling. It helps to have some energy at the top of your ticket.
You can downvote, but we will all be wringing our hands for the next five months.
He’s going to need to serve his prison sentence so this is a dangerous, crazy, moot point. They got him on State charges for what Cohen did and he ain’t gonna sing so time for Mr. Big to pay his debt to society, something he hopefully can’t escape again despite his moral and neurological bankruptcy
Tired of everyone dancing around this “small” problem. He has to be punished and it was stupid of society to let it get this bad. Fucking age limits, no older than 70 and mental competency tests that have teeth. Tax returns must be produced. Courts have enforced timelines for grave politico-legal issues. Emoluments safeguards enforced vigorously. No more profiting off using your own venues.
We have much to learn and improve on, Trump has exposed it all
While that would be
nicethe right thing, it’s highly unlikely to happen. The very fact that he is even running and that he has full control over his party says so.
Do you feel like your vote was swayed at all?
Didn’t change mine, but I’m the opposite of a low information voter, and just based on p2025 I’d vote for Weekend at Biden’s.
Did you think Trump could actually win back in 2016? I get what you’re saying, but it’s not me you have to worry about. It’s the voters who put him in office back in 2016, and the ones who still might again. Democracy being on the line may not be the best way to win voters or energize a base. The youth already feel betrayed. And dems suck at messaging.
I did not think Trump could win in 2016. I actually agree with all your points. I’m just a little baffled myself from this nonsense.
I don’t always whip out the Bible to prove a point but all these like hateful so-called Christians who are rising up to injure their fellow man make me think of this line:
2nd Thessalonians 2:11-12:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Regardless of whether you believe in the Bible or anything like that, the fact that this scenario has been spoken about in the past indicates that it is a known sociological fallacy in human beings, that we as a group have a tendency to engage in hateful self-destructive behaviors while under a strong delusion that we are doing the right thing.
I just wish people could see that when you have 100 million Cassandras screaming at you that Rome is about to go down in flames that somebody who has access to the fire extinguisher could hear them and break the glass.
(Choosing the word Cassandra because Cassandra was a seer who was cursed so that nobody would believe her prophetic visions, and so she was bound to helplessly watch over and over again is horrible things happened)
I feel you, it’s all absurd but not the kind you can laugh at.
Do you think lemmy.world/c/politics is a good representation of the american electorate?
Probably not lol
Do we have the momentum to elect a different candidate at the convention? Otherwise I’m absolutely voting for Biden over fucking Trump.
that would 100% lose the election for democrats if party insiders handpick the candidate instead of voters. A better strategy would be to pickup a half decent VP that can do a debate and then resign after election
You mean like they did in ‘16?
You mean like they did in this time too? when telling everyone not to primary? The super delegates created all of this mess.
2020 was way closer than it should have been, with key states being a hair’s breath from going to Trump.
Biden cannot afford to lose any votes.
I pretty much agree. I think the confusion of switching candidates would cause administrative panic, and a huge portion of voters would still vote for Biden. My morbid hope is for Biden to keel over. I think that’s the most graceful way we could swap candidates.
Or he could step down with dignity and back his replacement candidate. Seems like that would help sway voters in the Democrats favor
I think a fair amount of voters would still end up voting for Biden, though. Some people are really unaware of politics.
How can they vote for him if he’s not on the ballot?
Given how dysfunctional our democracy is do you think Biden would be properly removed from ballots in all the states? Wouldn’t GOP governors in purple states have a big motivation to keep both candidates on the ballot?
Him getting JFK’d isn’t an impossibility. Sad thing to wish for, though. I feel like Biden actually has good intentions here, I’d like him to just retire in peace. Democrats in congress could oust him as unfit under the 25th amendment and it would probably work whether the republicans join or not.
It was not a great night, but can it really be called a loss when the other guy refused to answer any questions?
Yes, because these debates are not won by whoever is more factual, they’re won by whoever has better rhetoric, which is why it’s such a fool’s errand for Biden to undertake it to begin with.
People who vote based on facts aren’t going to learn anything new watching this debate, this is a circus for low-information voters who decide to vote based on “vibe”.
And most people in that audience didn’t actually watch the debate live, but will have Biden’s biggest blunders blasted at them on repeat for the next 5 months.
Trump is a bullshitter, not a liar – a liar at least has a passing acquaintance with the truth
Wake up, man. Half the electorate is dumber than dogshit and we live in a post-facts world.
Yes. It can.
Biden just got into a wrestling match with an orange turd.
Sometimes, nobody wins.
Neither does Trump. We all know this. But our options are dottering old man and a narcissistic, sociopathic fascist. We have a broken system and this is what it has led us to. Probably what it was always going to lead us to, because nobody ever figured out a way to fix it. Maybe one day we’ll get to rebuild it from the ground up and it’ll be better. I’ll probably be dead before that happens though.
Still better than Traitorapist.
Still if the options are between somewhat senile Biden, or raving malignant narcissist Trump, there is no doubt for me who is the better choice.
Don’t forget complicit in Genocide in that Biden description.
I’m not sure what kind of mindset is required to make such a comment, when Biden has actually tried to moderate Israel, and Trump and his MAGA crowd absolutely don’t give a shit and actively support the genocide, and would support Israel even more.
So please try to explain in some fashion that has a shred of reason, what your thoughts are behind that comment.
Bypassing congress to send bombs and tank shells to israel used to commit Genocide sounds very moderate to me.
100 secret weapons shipments to resupply israeli weapons used to commit Genocide without letting the public know
24 Billion bollars in weapons to israel used to commit Genocide.
Such pushback very wow.
OK, and how does that relate to the option between Trump and Biden? When Trump would obviously be much much worse.
I’m talking actual alternatives, you are talking bullshit fantasies, daydreaming that hopefully the world was a better place.
Your argument may have a place, but not where it comes to the choice between Biden and Trump.you are talking bullshit fantasies
All of the things I mentioned really happened. Linked them plenty of times already if you need them again Google is your friend.
Cool. Joe Biden is a genocidal dottering old fuck.
What’s your plan? If anyone has a functional alternative to preventing the country from failing completely into Christian fascistism in November I am all fucking ears.
Jill Stein appears to be the candidate to rally behind.
Removed by mod
Oh no someone is pointing out Biden is complicit in Genocide!
Nobody on .world should care about Genocide!
You served your purpose Joe. You saved us from Trump in 2020. I wish you would have done it 6 months ago but it’s time to make as graceful an exit as you can. America has to persevere or succumb to fascism and I feel you’re making the latter more likely. It may feel like abandoning your post but it’s for the good of the nation. We need to look forward and you only remind us of the past. Please pass the baton.
Biden didn’t save us from Trump, voters did.
The same voters that gave us the disaster that was 45 also. Get out and vote, people.
Voters giveth, voters taketh away.
I bet Pete could come in and wreck house
There are such better picks, but he’s definitely not the worst.
I’d like to see a Whitehouse green administration or someone progressive like AoC/Sanders.
I’d love to see AOC as President more than I would Pete but I believe AOC would not win the general. Coming in as a surprise candidate and winning would require BOATLOADS of charisma, and Pete has that.
Pete isn’t that charismatic and has an awful record. I’d prefer someone who has a consistent record… and not Harris’s - she is far too damaged.
It’s one reason I mentioned Whitehouse.
So initially I thought AOC was too young to be president, but she turns 35 in October, so I think that means she’d qualify?
Historically most presidents were in their 50s or 60s when inaugurated; I struggle to see anyone who barely made the cutoff even being considered for nomination.
That’s not why she won’t be considered. She’s progressive. Democrats would rather have a hereditary dictatorship headed by the Trump family than a progressive.
You mean the one that doesn’t have the balls to ground an aircraft manufacturer that has planes falling out of the sky?
Mayor Pete? That’s funny
Most of the people here would still vote for Biden if he was wheelchair bound and communicated with a bell zipp-tied to his armrest like Tio Salamanca.
The question isn’t “is he better than trump”, it’s “will enough people be motivated to go vote for a candidate that’s slipping into a waking coma?” and every day that Biden opens his mouth in front of a camera like tonight he looses more people who don’t give a fuck about politics.
There is no good news from this debate. If the democrats have a single other option to replace Biden on the ticket they should do it now or else ensure a trump presidency.
It was a tough night for Biden.
I’m voting for the democrat no matter what. Brandon needs to go.
De Nial is not just a river in Egypt.
I’d go so far to say he shouldn’t be President at this point. Step down, let Kamala take the wheel for the rest of the year.
If he can’t handle Trump in a debate, there’s no way he’s handling Presidential duties.
How did you pull that from this debate? He had to argue with a constant liar and couldn’t believe the BS he was spewing. Trump could not admit that he was convicted. Yea…Biden is the problem.
Biden couldn’t keep a coherent thought and kept making easy mis-statements.
For Trump, all he had to do was say “I don’t have the time to de-bunk every lie he just told, I’ll leave that to you guys, but here’s what I will say…”
Instead, we got this:
What debate did you watch? Trump argued like a 4 year old and didn’t respect his country enough to answer the questions he was given. He had to be asked 3 times to respond about childcare costs. He had to debate bullshit rather than being coherent. He couldn’t admit he was a felon. Which he is. And looked smug about it. Because he’s a fuckin moron.
I don’t care if people have a stutter. Because smart people can have a lapse. I am one of those and run a big ass company. And I’m not alone. There are many smart engineers that work around me that have problems speaking all the time. It sure as hell beats making up facts and sounding like an idiot to anyone with more than a brain stem doing their thinking for them.
As I said in the megathread yesterday, Trump is the personification of /r/confidentlywrong but in a debate, confidence carries the day and Biden corrected himself as often as he tried to correct Trump.
See the video clip above.
Trump lied through his teeth, the whole debate, and Biden couldn’t put together enough coherent words to counter it. It was an utter disaster for Biden.
It’s not a disaster if you choose to see through the bullshit. Using critical thinking and knowing you’re being sold a lie is way better than just dismissing it and saying it’s a loss. I saw it as a reinforcement of everything we know about Trump. He’s a loser and a bad one at that.
Trump’s lies were irrelevant. Everyone knows he lies, that’s nothing new.
Biden came across as feeble. Weak. Incoherent. He needed to show he was the opposite of that and he completely and utterly failed to do so.
The only way it could have been worse would have been if Trump had a single ounce of awareness or human compassion and gone “Before we go any further… Joe, are you OK? I mean, I want to win the debate, but not like this. Can someone bring him some water or something?”
I’m going to say this all seriousness. You aren’t smart enough to change my mind. You look for the shallowness of a person when I look for substance. Good luck.
I’ve seen a few people in other posts still trying to claim his stutter got the best of him.
I’ve seen them claiming that he was getting over a cold.
