- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
‘It’s quite soul-destroying’: how we fell out of love with dating apps::For a decade, apps have dominated dating. But now singles are growing tired of swiping and are looking for new ways to meet people – or reverting to old ones
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Most dating apps are looking to make a profit first and provide a good service second. This is terrible, but we live in a capitalist hellscape so it’s not surprising.
HOWEVER. A lot of people are really bad at using dating apps. This is kind of a peeve of mine and I’ve been thinking of writing a book (or at least a blog post) about how to do better.
The premise is “throw the ball back”. So many people match and then just drop the ball. Their profile says they love NK jemisen so you write “she’s great! Did you read her new book 'the city we became '? It’s a total love letter to New York”. A fine message. And they write back “No”. End of message.
My dude that’s not how this game works. They’ve thrown you the ball with their message. You’ve caught it. Now throw it back by asking a question of your own.
If you’re not interested or don’t have the energy to be present, don’t say anything. If you’re not interested, just unmatch. If you don’t have the energy, come back when you do. If you never have the energy, delete the app you’re not ready.
And to all the people who just message with “hey”: please do better. You look incompetent when you do that.
That’s true of like all text messages, come to think of it. Some of you assholes probably message me at work on slack with “hey” instead of starting with the important part.
Also don’t be a fucking pen pal. If they matched and responded to your initial topic well, just ask them out. That’s what you’re both here for.
I’m an extremely average guy who doesn’t date men. If I can do this so can all of you.
When people find a partner, the dating service stops making money from them.
I agree. My sister and I both found our partners through online dating. I never found a decent partner until I completely changed by strategy, so yes, a lot of people are bad at it. Conversely to don’t say “hey,” don’t send massive walls of text with your entire biography either.
There are some people that online dating works better for. My sister is a trans lesbian in a conservative state and is only attracted to cis women. It’s not going to be easy for her to just go out and date.
If you’re a lesbian, stay away from any services that allow searching for “friends.” My sister was very upfront about being a lesbian with a penis and she still got tons of messages from creepy dudes
When people find a partner, the dating service stops making money from them.
Weirdly, most of the dating apps don’t really support ethical-non-monogamy. You’d think that’d be an easy source of repeat money. But ENM is a whole other tangent. People get mad about it.
Conversely to don’t say “hey,” don’t send massive walls of text with your entire biography either.
This is good advice, too! I’ve encountered too-much text far less often than not-enough, so I didn’t think to include it. Typically if I find myself wanting to write more than a couple sentences at once, I turn that into “I’d love to talk more about this on a date”.
The last woman who sent me far-too-much text also sent me a completely generic opener. I think it was “What’s the last piece of art that moved you?” This probably seemed smart and deep to her, but in my opinion it’s not a good opener. It’s generic. She could have sent that to anyone. Nothing on my profile indicates I have a particular relationship with art. Do not send a first message that could have gone to anyone. What you send should be particular to them.
Yeah. You need to give the message that you actually read their information and you’re not just trying randomly to score.
Regarding your last two sentences: it’s a chore to do so for 30+ women a day per appwhen it’s mostly a negative feedback loop, the more you do it the more you hate that you’re doing it because you’re trying to be sincere and unique and you’re not getting responses, you try to be generic and you get no responses.
If she has a very basic profile with just the basic info, the only thing you can comment on are the pictures (her) and her info.
It can definitely be a chore. And extremely disheartening. But that’s the world we live in. And hopefully love in, as my phone autocorrect wanted to say. For you this might be the 20th original message you’ve written today, but for them this is their first impression of you. Make it count, or you’re just self sabotaging.
Also, if you’re getting 30+ matches a day, that’s a good problem to have. I get like a couple a week, and about half turn into dates. Some I reject, sometimes they reject me. I’m a guy who doesn’t date men.
But anyway, I don’t really disagree but I always recommend when it starts to feel like a chore that you hate: take a break. The apps will probably always be here. Go outside. See your friends.
I also just don’t bother messaging people who don’t have anything in their bio/blurb to talk about. The rare times they message me first, it’s almost always “hey” tier bad.
I’m not saying I get 30+ matches a day, I’m saying “I send 30+ messages a day on various apps, not just Bumble and get nothing in return”. It’s like applying for a job. It’s spending $35/month in hopes that you get a response.
Meme representation of what happened:
Dating apps are deeply, deeply enshitified because the economic incentive for them is the exact opposite of what monogamous users want. Specifically, the apps want you to keep subscribing, plus buy the super platinum plus extra added packs, but never really find someone and date them, because then you stop paying. Old school pre-sellout OKCupid had a great analysis of this in their blog, which was taken down the day they sold out.
This is why the few sites/apps that cater to non-monogamous or event based communities are still reasonably decent, e.g FetLife, Bloom and Feeld, though Feeld is partially down the enshitification pathway.
I’d be really interested in seeing what a fediverse dating app would be like, something that didn’t have the financial incentive to enshitify, and maybe had a match/search system like old-school OKC.
EDIT: missing word.
I found my girlfriend just before COVID popped off, but I would argue that dating apps are insufferable now due to how polarizing the world is.
Just having basic conversations with people online, including Lemmy, is so tiring. Like how I was called names for saying Windows just works, and then as I was being attacked for it, I was literally typing the comment from a Linux distro that currently wont allow Steam to download at higher than ~120Mbps, despite my internet being 1900Mbps. Then the guy continued to go off, calling me names, telling me that I am such a moron, all because I showed a live example of how Linux wasn’t “just working”?
The internet is so exhausting and toxic these days.
The Internet is just trolls (whether paid shills or people doing it for fun). Sometimes you think that some of these people just might be higher up the spectrum. You’d be right for one out of five of them, the other four are also just trolls.
I really loved OkCupid back before they sold out. They would share a lot of interesting data on their blog posts, and seemed genuinely interested in making successful matchups based on how your profile was presented to others. It was fun to be on there and didn’t feel like you were just being presented for “dateable” you were if you didn’t want to be.
I also met my wife on OkCupid, but that was just before the site really took a nosedive. Pretty annoyed they deleted my account without warning, so the first message she ever sent me is gone forever.
My wife and I also met on OKCupid, probably around the same time as you – Tinder-like features were starting to appear, but the core of the experience was still about reading other users’ personal essays and comparing compatibility quiz responses. Of all the services I tried, OKCupid (in that particular incarnation, at least) seemed like the only one that was genuinely aimed at fostering deep personal connections. I haven’t been on any of the apps in almost a decade now, but it really seems like the shallow, gamified Tinder model of “swipe right if they look hot” ate up the marketplace, to the detriment of everyone.
Yeah that’s literally all it is now, a few apps are like “there’s no swiping here” but then the mechanic they came up with is worse.
If you want to save stuff like that, it’s good to save it because sites disappear. There are also a lot of weird “privacy” obsessive people who have a bizarre fixation of wanting accounts to be “deleted” if they don’t sign in for a certain amount of time, and some sites are starting to give in to them.
Check for emails in both of your accounts and you might be able to find the text of it there.
The problem with dating apps is the commodification of human relationships. The way people use these apps is too superficial. They’re looking for the perfect man or woman, so if there’s something they don’t like or that person has a flaw, they don’t take the time to really get to know them on a deep level. There’s a lot to choose from! FOMO!
Perfection does not exist in this world and we must really try to connect on a deep level. Unfortunately, some people use these apps for window shopping and shallow relationships.
I agree with this but would say it’s just one of the problems.
I always have trouble with the idea that in reality these dating apps can’t want you to be perfectly successful or else you’d never use them again. There’s a real insidiousness there
On the backend, no company could fulfill their promise if a “special sauce” to successful matching that was especially better than anything anyone else had, so they focused on impulse matching that worked best for short-term satisfaction and hookups. This worked for the dynamic of what people expected, and the reviews and word-of-mouth remained generally high— until we all got burned out on meaningless, futile, superficial relationships.
So, what comes next?
I saw a terrible new dating app that was all about how super incredible you are and how you should only accept true partners who can battle your wits and income level, while it made vague references to coders and crypto.
It’s a website for those antisocial nerds that think themselves superior and anyone that goes on there is always going to be judging every partner as to their closeness to perfect. Anyone on there is a narcissist for sure.
What a terrible reduction of spouse to that. No wonder no one is having kids and people are lonely. That is how the “elite” view themselves and each other. Our society deserves to be burnt to the ground.
Once you realize their business model incentivizes them to not get you a life partner because then you’d stop using the app, they kinda don’t make sense to use.
And having a practical monopoly by Match doesn’t help either.
Kinda like Luxottica being the reason why most sunglasses cost $175 for $0.10 worth of plastic.
I liked what bumble did with the “lifetime premium”. It gives them an incentive to actually get you a match.
Coincidentally… I met my current girlfriend on Bumble after trying a litany of apps over the course of years… Definitely not saying it’s a good or easy option though. Part of it is that I’m picky, but I treated it a lot like a job for years to get this relationship.
I used dating apps for 10 years. Got maybe a dozen replies and 1 date. So I’m looking at like a .00001% success rate. It’s heartbreaking how unattractive that makes me feel.
It’s not you, it’s the apps. They’re set up that way to get you to pay for them.
That’s a big nope from me.
Well, if your goal was to get at least one date, then I’d say the success rate was 100%!
I would not call the date a success lol. I tried to plan to go somewhere but the girl knew a mutual friend so she said she felt more comfortable coming over my apartment. She was adamant about being pizza (which was awful), and when she walked in she cracked a joke about how easily she could get raped. 0/10. Did not see her again.
Oof, quite the story!!
The dating apps would still be useful if they haven’t broken themselves in order to make short-term profit.
If they hadn’t all sold out to the same company who then ruined each one of their purchases that would also help as then there would still be some competition in the market. But sadly it’s now become monolithic and completely pointless
When the apps suffer turbo enshittification, everybody tires of it fast. Tinder is little more than an ad front for Instagram, over half of every profile’s bio (which is hard to see on purpose, because of how Tinder works) is just @whoever . Tinder may also show a profile you already "Nope"d a second time, same with a profile you give a “Yeah”, effectively wasting a like.
Then there’s the heavy push for users, mainly men, to pay for premium. But wait, there’s premium Gold and premium Platinum! And also stuff you have to buy separately!
Tinder was good back in 2015. It became absolute shit with time. That the majority of other dating apps literally abandoned what set them apart (like OkCupid, which had comprehensive profiles to be filled and ditched it all for the same like/dislike schtick) doesn’t make people trust in them either. “Same shit, less people”.
Not to mention fake profiles and bots, because of course the apps will pretend they have more users than they actually have. How else will desperate men pay for platinum premium?
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but OKC went down the tubes because it was bought by the same company that owns tinder (match I believe?). They actually own many of the dating apps at this point.
Match Group. Pretty much an evil conglomerate of dating apps.
The discussion of this same article on Hacker News is shockingly redpilly.
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I gave up on online dating last year and I won’t be back. If that means I’ll end up dying alone, I’m honestly more comfortable with that idea than suffering though anymore of the bullshit that’s Tinder/Bumble/Hinge/etc. It’s become such a miserable experience for both sides (men and women).
As someone who had used online dating on and off for 10+ years, I can tell you one of the big problems - money and greed. I know it’s always easy to just “blame capitalism”, but I’ve seen first-hand the paradigm shift from an actual useful service (i.e. a way to meet people that you would otherwise not meet) to the blatant greed it’s become. The dating apps are so obviously profiteering off people’s loneliness it’s fucking disgusting. Back before Match bought everyone up, these services used to actually be okay for what they were.
Best to try meet people in the real world. It’s good for the mental state (especially nature and bodies of water), increases chances of meeting somebody, etc.
I guess we’re ignoring the subscriptions and bot accounts. The primary reason I never paid for any of it nor spent longer than a month on any of them.
Pim Tool likes to rant about online dating, but the reality is that there are dudes that can only date this way.
The thing that concerns me though is that eventually more people are going to identify as “awkward” and will refuse to go on dates with anyone they meed IRL and feel like everyone should only contact them online. We already see this with irrational fears of talking on the phone where millennials and zoomers insist on communicating exclusively through texts.
It used to be socially acceptable to ask a stranger for their phone number. Some would agree, some wouldn’t and I’d thank them for their time.
I tried this in 2019 at a restaurant and got a look like, “wtf is wrong with you?”
I did well on dating apps when the format was like email because I could showcase my personality, which doesn’t come through easily in a text message format (never been good at small talk with strangers; writing letter let me really express myself). Luckily, I’ve found my partner, though I was worried it’d never happen.
Modern dating apps also suck for dating if you have average looks.
It used to be socially acceptable to ask a stranger for their phone number. Some would agree, some wouldn’t and I’d thank them for their time.
I tried this in 2019 at a restaurant and got a look like, “wtf is wrong with you?”
Maybe at a bar, but I’ve never heard of that in a restaurant. It also depends on the context, too.
