I have trouble understanding when a genre becomes “post-” so I’m curious what people here might think.
What cyberpunk work do you think moved us into post-cyberpunk? Is there one? Or is this “post-cyberpunk” stuff nonsense and it’s all just cyberpunk?
I’ve heard an argument that Neal Stephenson’s Snow Crash (1992) is post-cyberpunk because it’s a satire of the cyberpunk genre, but I’ve heard the same thing said about Bruce Bethke’s Headcrash (1995). And is satire of the original genre a requirement to move post- a genre?
I could see an argument that post-cyberpunk takes place in worlds that know what the modern-day internet looks like (with social media and disinformation) but I’m not sure if there’s a cyberpunk work that really carries that flag. That is, I could see an argument for post-cyberpunk being a “refresh” of the 1980s cultural fears to fit our modern times, but I’m not sure if there’s a work that ushered in this new genre. I’ve made the argument that Elysium updates cyberpunk with modern cultural fears, but I don’t think it led to a wave of updated cyberpunk works (it was an outlier, not the progenitor of a new genre).
So what do you think? What requirements would you have for the cyberpunk genre to become post-cyberpunk? And does that cyberpunk work already exist?
(Note: for the picture in this post, I was trying to show the juxtaposition of “classic cyberpunk” vs “modern cyberpunk”. I’m not arguing that Deus Ex is post-cyberpunk.)
A post-genre takes the foundational structures of the genre, then inverts them using an entirely different foundation. Rock music is usually a fairly simplistic guitar-driven trio or quartet with strong roots in R&B and a basic 4/4 time signature. Post-rock draws from classical to use the energy of rock music/electric instruments in the more complex structure of a composition with non-standard time signatures and chamber orchestras. The only thing really retained from rock music is using guitars as violins, basses as cellos, and drum kits as double-basses/timpani.
Post-cyberpunk to me is solar punk. Instead of being an anarcho-capitalist critique of the 1970s-1990s, it’s a socialist earthbound Star Trek critique of the 1990s-2020s. It radically accepts 21st century technology, but instead of making that something to fear it’s liberating. Technology represents self-actualisation and self-sufficiency, sustainable living, decommodification and community, and a material force for democratic bottom-up progress instead of corporate top-down oppression. If you replace your limbs with bionics, it’s a non-financialised decision to let you help your neighbours more.
Disco Elysium would also be a good contender, especially with the retrofuturistic steampunk aesthetics, but I don’t think it’s cyberpunk in the way that Deus Ex is. When I played it, advanced technology was a backdrop but I don’t recall it being a plot point. I consider it closer to Series 2 of The Wire than I do Snow Crash.
Interesting, I never would’ve thought about solarpunk that way. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqJJktxCY9U
This video, originally a yoghurt ad for some reason, really sets the exact tone I see in solarpunk and the through-lines to cyberpunk.
As someone who’s obsessed with cyberpunk (and thus this is entirely a “me” problem), I only see solarpunk as an unattainable dream; a goal. I understand it’s the desire for what the world should ultimately look like, but I don’t see how it’s a genre. That is, I feel like solarpunk is the epilogue, the “happily ever after”, but I don’t see how you can tell stories in this world. I can see how you can have a story that ends with the creation of this idylic world but I don’t know how you can tell a story that is set in this world and still have a conflict.
So from my ignorant view, I can see how solarpunk could be the world that is created once cyberpunk is defeated, but I don’t know if that makes it “post-cyberpunk”. I guess I would say, to me, solarpunk is “post-cyberpunk” in the same way Star Trek is “post-capitalism”. Not “post” as in genre, but “post” as in chronologically after. Sorry, I’m just rambling, I’ll stop now.
To me the main hero/antihero archetype in cyberpunk is the nerd ninja. Someone is wronged by the system, they try to confront that, and despite not having an ideological motivation they end up morally opposing it and taking down some token representation of it.
In solarpunk, the hero/antihero is the nature ninja. They’re wronged by climate change and confront it ideologically, morally opposing it and mitigating the crisis through trying to create a post-scarcity society. It’s still a story about injustice and rebellion, but it’s the town against the zombie apocalypse instead of the lone survivor against zombie minibosses. That’s why I call it Star Trek for farmers. A series like DS9 can have significant drama in a more utopian society because they have to confront their ideals in a dystopian galaxy. Solarpunk, like the more nihilistic frostpunk, is desperate survival but trying to find some kind of hope in a Neo-Luddite struggle against the ghosts of capitalism.
edit: Horizon: Forbidden West. That’s a good example of it as a narrative. Capitalism built robot dinosaurs and engineered its own collapse, now scavenger tribes find a new balance with nature while raiding the ruins to learn why their world is so hostile.
Awesome, that really helps. Thanks!
i will agree that solar “punk” seems to primarily serve as an aesthetic, rather than being any kind of punk. the hegemonic system in a solarpunk society probably isn’t something that needs to be rebelled against. “steampunk isn’t punk” arguments used to be more of a thing, but the answer was that cyberpunk wasn’t really all that punk to begin with either.
not being able to write stories in a solar punk setting is a skill issue. much like the Kurtzman star trek failure to be optimistic. a drama in such a society could be about getting other villages to agree to a huge collaborative project. Without being sectarian about it, it’s logistically much easier for a state to run a space program than it would be to get hundreds of autonomous communes to agree to every little part and the pollution inherent to launching rockets.