In countries like Germany, balcony-mounted solar panels are all the rage. But from breaker-masking to voltage mismatches, America’s grid isn’t ready for it—yet.
Tl;dr: Because we haven’t created a safety standard for it.
The lack of an Underwriters Laboratories (UL) standard is perhaps the biggest obstacle to the adoption of balcony solar. The company certifies the safety of thousands of household electrical products; according to Iowa State University, “every light bulb, lamp, or outlet purchased in the US usually has a UL symbol and says UL Listed.” This assures customers that the product follows nationally recognized guidelines and can be used without the risk of a fire or shock.
Oh, America? The one still clinging to 110V (thus more current) and in some cases using aluminum wires? The one where safety standards are for wussies?
Yeah I wonder why.
Neither 110VAC or 240VAC is inherently more dangerous as long as the system is paired with the right gauge of wire. As for personal safety, both are more than capable of killing you regardless of amperage. 240VAC may even be a little more capable because it can push more current through the resistance of your body.
I’ll admit, American plugs/outlets leave a lot to be desired, but it’s not any more dangerous because of the higher current.
Yeah I mean, there are ish 130 million households in the US. If your way of doing up wiring was so bad, you’d have fires everywhere all the time.
It’s just a different way of doing it. Not better or worse, inherently.
The only thing I thoroughly dislike that you guys do are wire nuts. I know I will piss of some American sparkies, but holy fudge they are crappy. When even the professionals can mess it up by twisting poorly/wrong, it’s bound to cause issues for less experienced people. Just use WAGO’s.
Neutral and Ground are bonded at the first point of disconnect, which provides two paths to ground in the event a ground is lost was my point. Not that there are somehow “two Earth’s”.
I mean, your outlets definitely are, compared to what we have as a standard.
I will take Technology Connections’ opinion on it over yours, but yes having two pin outlets where if you start plugging it in the live connection is exposed during the process is very much stupid
Except with proper arc and ground fault protection on a circuit, which is mandatory on basically everything in North America now, you could half insert a plug and stick your tongue to it without getting a shock.
Our household wiring standards are intrinsically safer than the UK. They need the overbuilt outlets and plugs that Technology Connections likes, because the UK took so many shortcuts on their building wiring.
Can’t really fault them: they developed those standards during a massive copper shortage. To minimize copper use, they ran as few circuits as they could, which means each circuit is drawing absurd loads. They developed “ring circuits” which used undersized wiring and are one loose wire away from an overload. They had to build excessive protections into their plugs so they could safely plug every device they owned into one high-power circuit.
He did day that about our plugs a lot. Maybe you would you like a link to the technology connections video saying basically exactly what @chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world said about our split phase 120/240 setup then?
Most of Norway (my house included) is still stuck on IT, so 230V phase/phase.
The only place it really sucks is for modern induction hobs where 25A @ 230V is a bit low (5,75 kW, max on mine is 7,2 kW) and the EV charge box (3,6 kW or 7,2 kW max instead of 11 or 22 kW).
They are however changing to TN for new areas.
Upside is that the earth current will be very small when you have a fault, so the system can function with it. I believe this is why critical institutions like hospitals run IT and not TN/TT.
America has a lot of stupid, but the majority our electrical systems are very much NOT one of them.
What? America has one of the most unsafe electrical systems in the world. You might as well just stick two unshielded wires out of the wall and be done with it, it would actually be more convenient about the same level of safety.
As for crossing the phases, yes you can do that but how many outlets are actually set up like that, you certainly won’t find an outlook configured like that in a bedroom. Each household probably only has one or two 240 volt outlets.
American electrical systems have bonded neutrals and grounds at the point of disconnect, so in the event of a ground fault, there are multiple layers of safety involved.
Lower voltage by using half of a split phase 240V means shocks are less deadly.
Electrical code also requires Arc and Ground fault protection on all circuits.
The biggest advantages to European electrical systems are smaller and fewer conductors, due to higher voltage, and appliances like kettles can draw more watts as a result.
Both systems have advantages and disadvantages, but saying that American Electrical systems are “the most unsafe electrical systems in the world” is bullshit. Visit India where people regularly hook up unsanctioned taps to live power lines or Central America where they put electric hot water heaters literally in the shower, conductors and all, almost always by Handyman Juan who doesn’t hook up any ground fault protection.
you certainly won’t find an outlook configured like that in a bedroom.
I’ve got one. My bedroom was designed to be able to use a 240v window air conditioner.
I don’t actually need that, because the house was renovated with central air, but the outlet is still there.
I’ve got a 30a 240v outlet behind my stove, a 50a 240v outlet in my garage. I wired an 80a 240v circuit for my parents hot tub. We’ve got no shortage of power here.
The only thing that annoys me about the North American power grid is that we only have three phase in commercial and industrial settings. We don’t bring three-phase power to the home.
You want to see stupid, go look at the ring circuits they play with on the UK grid. Completely unsafe.
In the USA, by and large, homes are supplied with 240v with a neutral in the middle. So each phase is 120v. And we can access 240 by simply going across both phases. Literally every house I’ve ever been in my whole life has had 240v to the panel, including ones built before anyone on Lemmy was born.
The only places this isn’t true was a couple of large apartment complex I lived in for few years where it was 360 to the complex 208 to the unit and 115v on each phase.
If you took out the neutral, we’d have 240 exactly like Europe. In theory (definitely not within code), on 90+% of houses in the USA, you could just wire the neutral to the opposite phase as live that the circuit is already on and get the full 240v to every outlet in the house (DO NOT FUCKING DO THIS). Each phase that we have only exists in the context of the neutral, and the neutral is strictly optional(though common) in the context of things like high draw devices.
As far as your aluminum comment… First, why aren’t you saying “aluminium” if you’re not (seemingly) American? But you realize that aluminum works perfectly fine for power delivery right? The EU uses aluminum in places too…
“Europe’s energy transition is about one thing, more renewable power production, and the power produced must be transported over long distances. Aluminium is crucial for transporting electricity to where it is needed. By expanding the capacity to deliver low-carbon aluminium from Norway to the EU, we help ensure that the infrastructure, the very backbone of the future energy system, supports both Europe’s security and climate policy goals," says Kallevik.
Edit: LMAO downvoted for actual facts. Here you go mr aussie.zone user that also clearly doesn’t understand the USA electrical system, https://youtu.be/jMmUoZh3Hq4
Well it tickles me most that the username of the person who downvoted me is directly electrical engineering related… They should have understood everything I said and realized it was accurate.
Tl;dr: Because we haven’t created a safety standard for it.
!savedyouaclick@lemmy.world
Safety standards? Sounds like anti-profit standards! Guess who DOGE is cutting next!
Oh, America? The one still clinging to 110V (thus more current) and in some cases using aluminum wires? The one where safety standards are for wussies? Yeah I wonder why.
Neither 110VAC or 240VAC is inherently more dangerous as long as the system is paired with the right gauge of wire. As for personal safety, both are more than capable of killing you regardless of amperage. 240VAC may even be a little more capable because it can push more current through the resistance of your body.
I’ll admit, American plugs/outlets leave a lot to be desired, but it’s not any more dangerous because of the higher current.
Yeah I mean, there are ish 130 million households in the US. If your way of doing up wiring was so bad, you’d have fires everywhere all the time.
It’s just a different way of doing it. Not better or worse, inherently.
The only thing I thoroughly dislike that you guys do are wire nuts. I know I will piss of some American sparkies, but holy fudge they are crappy. When even the professionals can mess it up by twisting poorly/wrong, it’s bound to cause issues for less experienced people. Just use WAGO’s.
#SorryNotSorry!!
American electrical systems are split phase 240V. If you want 240V, you just connect between both halves of the phase.
America has a lot of stupid, but the majority our electrical systems are very much NOT one of them.
And that’s better than 3 Phase 230V in what way?
Lower voltage is less deadly.
Having a multi grounded approach provides multiple layers of safety for shorts.
Just to name a few.
If Voltage of AC is above 50V, it will break your skin and then the current and time kills you.
https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2020/02/killer-current-voltage.html
Multiple grounds? There’s only one ground. You’re walking on it.
120V/240V, Split-Phase – Center-tapped
120V/208V, 3-Phase – Wye
120V / 208V & 240V, High Leg – Delta
https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2023/03/standard-voltage-levels-in-us.html
Neutral and Ground are bonded at the first point of disconnect, which provides two paths to ground in the event a ground is lost was my point. Not that there are somehow “two Earth’s”.
I mean, your outlets definitely are, compared to what we have as a standard.
I will take Technology Connections’ opinion on it over yours, but yes having two pin outlets where if you start plugging it in the live connection is exposed during the process is very much stupid
Except with proper arc and ground fault protection on a circuit, which is mandatory on basically everything in North America now, you could half insert a plug and stick your tongue to it without getting a shock.
Our household wiring standards are intrinsically safer than the UK. They need the overbuilt outlets and plugs that Technology Connections likes, because the UK took so many shortcuts on their building wiring.
Can’t really fault them: they developed those standards during a massive copper shortage. To minimize copper use, they ran as few circuits as they could, which means each circuit is drawing absurd loads. They developed “ring circuits” which used undersized wiring and are one loose wire away from an overload. They had to build excessive protections into their plugs so they could safely plug every device they owned into one high-power circuit.
We used dozens of properly-sized circuits.
Yeah, but why compare it to UK? It’s the US of Europe, compare it to the European standards.
You referred to Technology Connections. Unless I’m mistaken, he had an unhealthy obsession with UK plugs.
He did day that about our plugs a lot. Maybe you would you like a link to the technology connections video saying basically exactly what @chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world said about our split phase 120/240 setup then?
https://youtu.be/jMmUoZh3Hq4
The majority of the rest of the world has 220-230v per phase, with three phases. using all three phases gives you access to ~400v
Most of Norway (my house included) is still stuck on IT, so 230V phase/phase.
The only place it really sucks is for modern induction hobs where 25A @ 230V is a bit low (5,75 kW, max on mine is 7,2 kW) and the EV charge box (3,6 kW or 7,2 kW max instead of 11 or 22 kW).
They are however changing to TN for new areas.
Upside is that the earth current will be very small when you have a fault, so the system can function with it. I believe this is why critical institutions like hospitals run IT and not TN/TT.
Yes, and where I work the HV line is 13,800V.
What? America has one of the most unsafe electrical systems in the world. You might as well just stick two unshielded wires out of the wall and be done with it, it would actually be more convenient about the same level of safety.
As for crossing the phases, yes you can do that but how many outlets are actually set up like that, you certainly won’t find an outlook configured like that in a bedroom. Each household probably only has one or two 240 volt outlets.
American electrical systems have bonded neutrals and grounds at the point of disconnect, so in the event of a ground fault, there are multiple layers of safety involved.
Lower voltage by using half of a split phase 240V means shocks are less deadly.
Electrical code also requires Arc and Ground fault protection on all circuits.
The biggest advantages to European electrical systems are smaller and fewer conductors, due to higher voltage, and appliances like kettles can draw more watts as a result.
Both systems have advantages and disadvantages, but saying that American Electrical systems are “the most unsafe electrical systems in the world” is bullshit. Visit India where people regularly hook up unsanctioned taps to live power lines or Central America where they put electric hot water heaters literally in the shower, conductors and all, almost always by Handyman Juan who doesn’t hook up any ground fault protection.
I’ve got one. My bedroom was designed to be able to use a 240v window air conditioner.
I don’t actually need that, because the house was renovated with central air, but the outlet is still there.
I’ve got a 30a 240v outlet behind my stove, a 50a 240v outlet in my garage. I wired an 80a 240v circuit for my parents hot tub. We’ve got no shortage of power here.
The only thing that annoys me about the North American power grid is that we only have three phase in commercial and industrial settings. We don’t bring three-phase power to the home.
You want to see stupid, go look at the ring circuits they play with on the UK grid. Completely unsafe.
Except that we have 240v?
Why do people overseas keep getting this wrong?
In the USA, by and large, homes are supplied with 240v with a neutral in the middle. So each phase is 120v. And we can access 240 by simply going across both phases. Literally every house I’ve ever been in my whole life has had 240v to the panel, including ones built before anyone on Lemmy was born.
The only places this isn’t true was a couple of large apartment complex I lived in for few years where it was 360 to the complex 208 to the unit and 115v on each phase.
If you took out the neutral, we’d have 240 exactly like Europe. In theory (definitely not within code), on 90+% of houses in the USA, you could just wire the neutral to the opposite phase as live that the circuit is already on and get the full 240v to every outlet in the house (DO NOT FUCKING DO THIS). Each phase that we have only exists in the context of the neutral, and the neutral is strictly optional(though common) in the context of things like high draw devices.
As far as your aluminum comment… First, why aren’t you saying “aluminium” if you’re not (seemingly) American? But you realize that aluminum works perfectly fine for power delivery right? The EU uses aluminum in places too…
https://www.hydro.com/en/global/media/news/2025/hydro-invests-nok-1.65-billion-to-supply-europes-electric-infrastructure-with-low-carbon-aluminium
Edit: LMAO downvoted for actual facts. Here you go mr aussie.zone user that also clearly doesn’t understand the USA electrical system, https://youtu.be/jMmUoZh3Hq4
People only see what their outlet provides. If you ask someone about the european voltage, they’ll probably say “220-230V”, not " 3-phase 400V".
Well, I could be wrong here, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a European outlet that did more than the 220-230v…
We’re not talking about three phase setups here… Residential in the USA is commonly 120/240. Not just 120.
If we’re going to talk 3-phase comparisons… then you’ll see all number of setups, but the most common would be 120/208, where 3 phases are wye tapped.
But in a typical USA home you can and will find 240 volt outlets for ranges, stoves, dryers, etc… We have outlets that provide 240.
There are special 3-phase connectors, but usually only in the kitchen (for an electric range)
Because they like dunking on the USA, your explanation doesn’t support that narrative … so nyaaaaaah
Well it tickles me most that the username of the person who downvoted me is directly electrical engineering related… They should have understood everything I said and realized it was accurate.
But instead
hurr durr American!