Independent but then their coms are purely proprietary, US-based sludge. If you think folks should be contributing to your project, you should be using technology where you can where you & your contributors can patch & make better too. There is no good reason to be limited to only Microsoft Github & Discord.
Don’t get it wrong: I have followed for years & want the project to succeed, but this reliance on corporations & not giving your users a private option where they can control their data needs to stop. Normies have ignorance excuse but software makers do not as they generally know better about how these tech firms operate.
It’s the one with a dev that thinks that replacing “he” by “they” is political propaganda?
Yeah, no thanks.
maybe I’m not seeing where the smoking gun is, here. I see a guy saying something akin to “can we not do this here in the github please”
and then I see a bunch of people blowing up and yelling about “dehumanization” over it.
…why is this such a huge deal exactly?
Absolutely nothing. The fact that they had to bring up a totally irrelevant 3 year old issue during an event that is supposed to be celebrated tells you a lot. They have been blatantly brigading various communities just for attention, and probably to get the dev cancelled or something. Even this post, the privacy community does not need this whole chain of replies. And yet, they overshadow every legit discussion with this bullshit unprompted.
so I don’t understand. why are all these comments yelling the same stuff? did they just decide to harass this one guy for saying “take it somewhere else, please”?
I’m trying to find anything malicious in anything he’s said. I’m finding nothing but a dude working on a browser.
this kind of behavior scares me greatly. I know individuals who have been victims of real transphobia. this seems to be a simple language difference. and I think targeting this guy is a mistake.
Flooding and being loud doesn’t make them right. it just means they’re loud.
I’m trying to find anything malicious in anything he’s said
They use the “silence is violence” trope to harass and terrorize projects, hiding behind their “protected status” as a transgender. Whenever someone rejects anything that calls for “greater inclusion”, they go nuclear and tell all their friends to do the same. The bullied becomes the bully. It’s very childish. It’s always people that never contribute any meaningful code as well.
Open mindedness is a key factor for success (especially in open source). Inclusivity demonstrates open mindedness. The fact that the lead dev goes out of his way to prevent such a minor change (it’s not even like people demanded a strict CoC or something) is a bad signal
he hasn’t gone out of his way. he just thinks its irrelevant to make a report about it. and he is correct. thats not what github report is for.
these commenters are hitting this guy for something so small it’s not worth getting angry over.
they’re calling this guy a transphobe for saying “please take this somewhere else. this is not the appropriate place” nothing about that is malicious or transphobic. at all.
They didn’t make a “report”, I think the word you’re looking for is “issue”. What they did was open a “pull request” that got rejected. So more of a “hey I made a small change to make everything more inclusive that will not affect you in any way” and the dev said “please don’t be political here”.
The person suggesting the change wasn’t being political but the dev was by rejecting the change
Yup, the other side is pretty counterproductive with saying the project is dehumanizing etc. They’re absurdly exaggerating.
It wasn’t just a report tho, it’s a PR that could’ve been merged with a single click
I agree with that, I read the comments and I agree about exaggeration. At the same time it is not something political to just adjust the documentation to use gender neutral terms as it is a professional thing to do. Where would be the place to discuss it considering that the only way to modify the code is from GitHub and PR?
Open mindedness is a key factor for success (especially in open source). Inclusivity demonstrates open mindedness. The fact that the lead dev goes out of his way to prevent such a minor change (it’s not even like people demanded a strict CoC or something) is a bad signal
Changing “he” to “they” isn’t a political change, or shouldn’t be if you’re not a fucking shithead
Thanks for the heads up. Not worth the time
Chill. Read the cited sources. It’s someone asking the community to not use the github forum for discussing the completely irrelevant topic. It’s not a fucking open forum it’s for developers to use as a resource. I don’t care if the person was giving out a $1,000,000 to anyone that commented, find an appropriate place to post your comments. I saw nothing against the topic itself but a bunch of angry responses. I mean if you read and are like na fuck that dude than 100% that’s your take but that’s the thing, its YOUR take. I hate seeing people so quick to draw the fuck this or fuck that card from absolutely zero rhetoric than what an anonymous internet comment said.
Treating social media as social media makes sense. If you don’t want your issue tracker to turn out like this, then stop using the social media code forge.
for someone who can speak a language that lacks gendered pronouns, this “hysteria” over he/she/they is ridiculous!
Well on the contrary you should understand it more. A gendered pronoun carries an idea of gender, and having a genderless pronoun frees the sentence of this gender assumption. Nothing very hard to understand.
that’s what i thought i meant but thanks for the lesson I’ve never needed
even your comment is, for me, coming from that ridiculous tension
Based Andreas KING
He is right, hey shouldn’t push a political agenda. They can fork it if they don’t like it. It is his choice and he is the one putting in the work, not you.
Refusing the change is pushing a political agenda too. But I guess it helps seeing which agenda you prefer ;)
Well it isn’t something that should be discussed in a Github issue.
I’m sorry but “project documentation should not be discussed in a GitHub issue or pr” is what you’re going with?? Where the fuck else would you discuss it?
And where then? It is about changing a part of the software, that fits quite clearly an issue/pull request
That’s enough brigading for today
people can have different views. you might not like them but it’s their views, not yours
And it’s my view that we are free to dunk on people with bad views.
i don’t get why sane people would rather a person with good opinions over a free independent web browser, the latter just seems so much more valuable to me.
@Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
@Gargari@lemmy.ml @Solumbran@lemmy.world @DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube
This is sorta a hornets nest. On the one hand I get that when it comes to tech who cares about the persons personal life but on the other hand when it comes to free software there is a concern over the orgs or individuals that run them given the trust involved. Yes you can rely on the many eyes but you want to be confident of the org (or individual) to begin with.
So you think you can draw a connection between someone’s views on inclusive language and whether an individual or org can be trusted with software security.
I’m sorry but to me this line of thinking is bonkers. The two things have nothing to do with each other whatsoever. What if a conservative individual argued that they have trust issues with an open source project because it features inclusive language now? The person might argue that they don’t understand why devs would devote their limited time to such cosmetics instead of focusing on code quality. How would you view this argument? On Lemmy it would probably be ridiculed, and rightfully so. Yet it’s the same line of thinking that I see if I interpreted your comment correctly.
Thats because you don’t view it as a moral failing. How would racist language rank. What about nazi stuff. I mean none of that technically effects trustworthiness for running an org. Well ah. unless your the particular thing.
Yes but not using inclusive language is far from counting as a moral failing in my world… It’s far from racism, let alone nazi stuff. So what’s that comparison good for?
Look, the dev is a reactionary. He lists that the browser is unstable and intended for devs. So IF I were to use it, that would mean reporting issues and/or fixing issues myself. I’m not interested in working with a reactionary. So I will not be using this browser. You’re welcome to use the browser if you want. At this time, I’m not interested.
Sure everyone’s free to use it or not, contribute to it or not. That’s not related to my argument. I was only talking about making a connection between someone’s political views and how much trust they deserve when it comes to e.g. security.
Or you could be an adult and move on with your life. Shaming people for not sharing your groupthink ideology is such a strange way to spend your limited time on this earth.
Shaming people for not sharing your groupthink ideology is such a strange way to spend your limited time on this earth.
He said with no sense of irony.
It’s almost as if there is no irony.
I don’t like bigotry
I think most people would not agree that that’s what this actually is. Plus, attacking people for having an opinion is not how you progress in ANY way, whether societal or technical. This likely means they have some ulterior motive i.e. they just want to see the world burn and they were never actually going to contribute anything meaningful in the first place. I always check the activity history of people like that, and look into what kind of person they are in general, what they typically say and what kind of opinions they have. Often you will be shocked, disgusted and saddened. One of the other like-minded people that posted a similar story here on lemmy about the same drama, literally has a picture on their social of them wearing a hat that says “gender terrorist” and they also sell explicit content of themselves on fansly.
defending bigotry isn’t progress, and outright lying in the face of obvious bigotry isn’t doing yourself - or anyone - any favors.
“don’t believe your lying eyes” is a line that only works on the most stupid and gullible, and you’re not going to get very far by telling your audience they’re too stupid to know better.
oh, and if you think that defending bigotry is “contributing something meaningful,” think again.
perhaps you should ask yourself: why do you like bigotry so much that you must dedicate so much time and effort and space to defending it? what sort of person does that make you?
it’s not bigotry. this is a massive nothing burger.
“don’t believe your lying eyes”
we covered that lie already. know any other tunes?
how about explaining why you so enthusiastically defend bigotry?
yeah but does that affect the browser development process significantly?
there are people with differing views in this world and you need to accept that if you want to actually achieve things
I’m not saying i agree with him bc I don’t, but I wouldn’t base my opinion on the project on the small grievance i have with one dev’s opinions.
It is just disappointing. But people forget that there are many FOSS projects that we widely use where the developers have shitty ignorant opinions. Maybe peoples uproar is directly related to the refusal to merge a simple grammar change, which seems very anti-open source. Or maybe that the Dev has a code of conduct that speaks about inclusivity which they weaponized to justify not merging, as to be “politically-inclusive” (aka some people dont believe that “they” can be used for one person lmao). It just feels like they are choosing a weird hill to die on and also being a hypocrite by being so intentional obtuse, and of course the devs abrasive and accusatory method of responding on multiple occasions.
I think it is harder to separate the Dev from their creation when it relates to open source. It really is a passion of the heart a lot of the time. But that doesn’t make the tech any less interesting.
I see your argument and I agree, but I just believe that with these talented/intelligent/passionate (valuable imo) people it’s better to dedicate their limited valuable time to things they exceed at, not time for them to “correct” their sometimes ignorant opinions. We can ignore their ignorance, we can’t replace their value.
When getting people to “correct” their opinions, my opinion is that they’re far more likely to learn to mask their opinions, having to be constantly conscious of how others will respond to what they’re saying and reducing their work throughput in the process.
Poor behavior can be corrected. Ignoring bigotry and letting it slide hurts others. That’s not acceptable
I don’t need to accept bigotry. I can just use a different browser.
have fun with google spyware ig when they finally do something like web environment integrity
Or we can just keep using firefox
Do you think there are no assholes working for google or mozilla? Assholes are everywhere. And fuck cancel culture.
Edit: I stand by what I said, you can downvote me all you want. It doesn’t matter to me one bit.
Removed
Cancel culture, this far-right myth that fascists love so much. You forgot to continue and talk about freedom of speech and how you are a centrist.
What the fuck have to do one thing with another. You people are so fucked up . You make drama from anything imaginable
Kling is the one “making drama”
63.3K commits from 1K+ contributors and still pre-alpha, it’s amazing what a nightmare web browsers have become!
servo.org: am I a joke to you?
I think as more competition and choices we have, so better.
Dillo sobs lonely.
literally never heard of it.
Is this browser private? Does it implement proper sandboxing and have any methods of anti-fingerprinting? I hope it eventually see the implementation of a robust content blocker. What makes this related to privacy and not instead just open source. While it is nice to see an independent web engine, if there is no method of anti-fingerprinting, the privacy of this browser is severely limited.
It isn’t done yet. They are targeting 2026
My point exactly. It isn’t ready and OP gave no context for why this relates to privacy. Better suited for the open source community on Lemmy.
It is good for freedom of choice which ultimately is good for privacy
All I was saying is it isn’t ready for use as a browser, it states on the github that it is in pre-alpha. It doesn’t have the threat model goal of protecting fingerprintable metrics. Using this over security and privacy hardened firefox, even in the future once all the web standards are supported, will worsen your privacy. There needs to be intentional development of anti-fingerprinting measures.
I like choice, this isn’t ready and OP should have added more context then just a title and a github. This is not a privacy browser, this is a tech demo.
I don’t think anyone was trying to imply that it was ready. Of course once it gets more mature then things like privacy will likely start to become more integrated.
Making a post in the privacy community with the tittle “truly independent browser” and a github link makes it seem that this project is related to privacy somehow. Nothing on the github has anything to do with privacy. There is no reason to believe the Dev has any intention to add privacy protection features. It is just another web engine. The only reason gecko has a lot of its anti fingerprinting is because of upstreamed features from the Tor browser, not because gecko’s developers engineered them. So my question is still “how does this relate to the privacy community instead of the open source community”.
I think some would consider the mere fact that it is independent, to be a positive for privacy in ways other than fingerprinting. I understand not everyone agrees, but I can see why some would think this.
Languages: C++
Yeah, hard pass on looking at that code base.
