If Win11 didn’t fucking go “naw bro you don’t have a LoJack on your motherboard so no install” I’d be like whatever but since it does they need to keep supporting it for at least a decade or remove the Trusted chip requirement. I know you can bypass it, but nobody in business is gonna do that and neither is Grandma.
OS-as-a-service needs to be made illegal, ffs
It makes some sense for business & enterprise stuff, but not for household/consumer computers & devices. That’s just rent-seeking and forced obsolescence. There is no good reason a home computer from the past fifteen years should have security patches withheld because the manufacturers want people to throw them away and buy and brand new ones.
I kind of get it, but I feel like even in a b2b context you shouldn’t be allowed to charge a subscription for something as low level as the OS.
Now if Microsoft wants to offer paid support subscriptions for business customers (they might already do, I didn’t look) that I would be fine with.
Of course, businesses would just pivot in the other direction and speed up the release cycle to every year or two, making smaller and smaller improvements. No system will be perfect. I just hope we get to a better solution than “constant vigilance” eventually, whatever it looks like.
Could you imagine having to pay apple a monthly fee just because you use iOS on their phone?
Or pay Google every month to use android?
Except that you can keep upgrading windows or just install linux and be up to date with the security patches for like 10+ years, your phone runs out of support in like 5-6 years in the best case and then good luck using these banking apps securely.
Apple is still releasing security updates for the iPhone 6s… that’s over 8 years of phone updates. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222
Sure, but in that case you pay for the OS through the overly inflated price of the device that brings mediocre warranty and pathetic options for repair. It’s a tradeoff.
I would be fine if windows required you to purchase a new OS every 5-6 years. Paying monthly/yearly is bull shit though.
What about other products-as-a-service? And on what grounds? I think it’s unwise to use/rely on these services, but I’m not sure how they should be regulated. At a minimum your data should be freely exported in bulk on request.
Why? Because you’re too lazy to try replacements?
Paying for a service or product is never going to be illegal. It being an inferior product that the public is made aware of is the only way this shit is gonna change if ever.
My PC doesn’t fill the requirements for windows 11 and yet it was trying to update to it. (I7 2600 works fine, but not supported)
Installed Ubuntu and just didn’t look back
Linux is the way. Microsoft will never stop making Windows worse.
Arch
That is a fucking awful suggestion for someone who just switched from windows lol. And I say that as someone who uses Arch (btw) as a daily driver
Arch is great for power users and hobbyists, but I can’t think of a quicker way to turn a casual user off Linux lol. Ubuntu wouldn’t necessarily have been my first choice either, but it’s a perfectly serviceable windows replacement
Ubuntu is great, the average user doesn’t care about the snaps controversy
Honestly I use Ubuntu as a server OS knowing full well there are better OS’s simply because there’s so much documentation out there for Ubuntu that if I have an issue I’m struggling to solve, someone else already has. Which is what people who are swapping OS’s need more than anyone.
Ive been using Ubuntu for years, people have been bitching about it, but its stable and easy to use and thats all i want from my pc
And if you’re going to offer someone to switch to something over the snap controversy anyways, maybe recommend Mint or a similar distribution (Mint is basically Ubuntu without snap)
Hahaha it is. I use u until because I enjoy the ease of use of windows and I like how it handles
I guess it wasn’t too apparent but ‘twas a little joke… why does everyone get so heated so quickly 😭 I just thought it was funny to say “Arch” to a Ubuntu user because of the stereotypical “I use arch btw” behavior of arch users And yes I agree, arch is great for power users and hobbyists and not for the casual. I’d figure, Ubuntu is usually a first choice for casuals, they look up Arch, and just say “ok I’ll stick with Ubuntu this is too complicated for me” I use Arch btw
I understand the CPU hardware limitations due to Spectre/Meltdown issusles, but at the same time it is an ecological disaster. Two decades ago you would ditch your hardware frequently, simply because it could not run any new application. Now I have systems which do have more than appropriate computing power for my specific tasks and are forcefully obsoleted. They should at least extent Windows 10 critical fixes until 2030.
I believe the situation will cause to Windows 10 to become the next Windows XP immortal ghost for quite some time.
Same here. There is nothing wrong my my 7 year-old PC. I built it to last. It runs everything fine with good graphics and yet I’m being forced to change hardware for what? It’s just a waste of money and something I can’t afford.
I’m not a windows user but it seems every time there’s a new version people swear they’ll never use it and that the old version should be supported forever… and then eventually that “horrible” version becomes the next version that people won’t let go of… Are you guys okay?
Basically Microsoft tends to release operating systems in a 2 stage cycle. Every other version of Windows does something new and innovative, and then the next version is more polished, stable, and normal.
95 - new, innovative, and crappy
98 - solid
Then it got weird. They wanted to stop building the consumer version of Windows on top of DOS, and move it on to the NT kernel as 2000. The consumer version wasn’t ready by the deadline, so they released 2000 for business only, and released a new DOS based Windows Me.
2000 - Really nice but boring. Extremely innovative new features for business use (Active Directory). The amount of work they put into Active Directory is probably why they didn’t have the new consumer friendly UI ready in time. It’s a rock solid OS but they significantly missed their goals.
Me - Absolute garbage, a cash grab. They basically put something out to satisfy the bean counters since they couldn’t market NT to consumers yet.
XP - They finally pulled it off, and it’s a pretty good OS that has the stability of NT, and all the multimedia features that consumers want.
Vista - They rewrote a huge portion of NT to be 64 bit, require signed drivers, and be more stable. The release version was pretty crappy but after 1-2 service packs it was actually pretty decent. But by then its reputation was already tarnished, and overall it was innovative and crappy.
7 - This was a very solid release. They took Vista and refined the UAC system to be less intrusive. Also a really nice new feature where you can use the taskbar like a dock where an app’s icon stays in one place, even if it’s not running.
8 - Experimental implementation of adding a touch UI to Windows. They made a decent effort but it really felt like a tech demo and nobody recommended it for anything outside of tablet devices. It was dreadful for people using traditional mouse and keyboard.
10 - Another solid OS. They basically took 7, added 8’s touch UI features, and figured out how to blend them without it being annoying. The touch interface doesn’t get in the way if you’re using keyboard and mouse, and vice versa.
11 - I’m really not sure what the purpose of this OS is. I guess they’re experimenting with trying to make the Windows UI more Mac-like. The taskbar centers the icons by default so it looks like the MacOS dock, and they’re really pushing the new app store where all the apps have to be written with the newer UI libraries that work a lot more like mobile development platforms. So it really seems like Microsoft is planning for a future where Windows can run on many different types of devices and run the same apps. And Windows 11 is kind of a stepping stone to get there.
So Windows 12 should be interesting.Also, while all of this is going on, with every new release generally comes a server version as well. They’re constantly expanding the Active Directory schema and adding a lot of cool new features to Active Directory, such as new Group Policies that can be applied to groups of computers and users throughout an organization, which can automate a ton of things. If you want everybody in an accounting department to have a Q: drive with their QuickBooks files in it, you throw them all into an AD group or OU, and set up a new group policy on that group to map that Q: drive. And now all of those users will have that drive. I think it was starting with Windows server 2008r2 (Windows 7 server basically) and Windows 7, they added new Group Policies that did the drive mapping differently, and they would automatically map without the user even having to log off. Also, if the Group Policy is removed from a user, or a new user is moved into that group, it will automatically handle the changes. There’s so much more to Windows than most people realize.
Windows 10 was hated too when it came out. And 11 improves the UI by a lot, this is where they fix the control panel.
Yeah he’s skipping over the fact that windows 10 was when windows really started to be aggressive about advertising and anti-privacy measures. I agree that it’s UX was pretty good, but it had big issues on other fronts
They’re constantly expanding the Active Directory schema and adding a lot of cool new features to Active Directory
you mean by letting it rot and become a security nightmare while trying to force everyone to move over to azureAD/entraID?
The purpose of 11 is customer tracking.
If they wanted that they could have stuck to Windows 7
Nope. If this is business as usual Microsoft won’t fuck as badly with Windows 12 and people are going to skip 11.
I’ve seen this but nobody actually likes the older versions either. Vista being an outlier, of course
These people… install linux! Your computer aren’t made to run just one single OS.
Microsoft be like: Windows 10 Long-Term Servicing Channel (LTSC)
I don’t think that’s available for private customers. Unless of course you pirate it; but even then it comes with the limitation of being English only. And there are plenty of people in other countries who want/need their OS to be in their native language.
I’ve been multilingual long enough I don’t even realize I need anything to be written in my native language.
Good privilege 😘
I don’t personally care, but many people do.
They really should. Windows 11 has the bullshit “requirement” of needing SecureBoot so it can’t work on BIOS motherboards, only UEFI ones. This is different than saying you no longer support 32 bit CPUs. There’s no reason to require fucking SecureBoot. Seriously. It’s like someone saying they won’t sell you a TV if your house doesn’t have a lock in the door and then advertising their TV as secure because of that.
Your entire statement here stems from not knowing what you’re talking about. That’s OK. I’ll provide some insight.
Secure Boot is a security feature of UEFI that only allows trusted, cryptographically signed operating systems to boot. The nature of this prevents rootkits. Software that runs before the OS and injects itself. BIOS has many hard limitations and disadvantages over the modern standard that is UEFI. Your comparison going from 32 to 64 bit architecture is quite fitting. It’s not that different. There are many hard limitations and disadvantages to 32 bit. It’s unfit for today’s standards due to lack of features and security. All aspects of technology have to move forward.
Yes, but you could still buy a new motherboard without UEFI support a year ago, and there are still some units in stock online.
It’s way, way too early to drop support of an OS that is the latest version that can be run on hardware that current.
People who spent 3 grand building a computer in 2021 should be able to have OS support for at least a decade. They can’t upgrade their OS, so the latest OS they could purchase should be maintained longer.
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Actually I’d prefer a petition for Microsoft to drop Windows support entirely.
It would be beautiful to see Windows become another Linux distro and ditch the NT kernel
Yea they should stick to phones
Remember when Windows 10 was gonna be their final OS?
And they believed that! Haha Buncha suckers. - Some MS execs, probably.
That was just one dev saying something off the cuff, and the media ran with it. It was never an official stance, or even said by anyone with the actual authority to make decisions like that.
It would be like you saying “tomorrow our company is shutting down” to a reporter about your work.
Considering it should have been the last Windows ever… Yeah.
Remember when Windows 10 were advertised as the final and only Windows? Pepperidge farm remembers…
They did that with XP also. It will be the windows experience!
Yeah that was my inspiration 😀
They didn’t. It’s kinda weird how many people “remember” advertisements that never existed. It was literally one Microsoft employee saying things, in an unofficial capacity.
Edit: If anyone can show me an advert that claims this, I’ll happily eat my crow.
That was back when Mac was still OS X right? Once they hit 11 numbers had to go up. It’s why there isn’t a Xbox 2.
No, it’s about M$ saying Windows 10 will be last Windows ever…
And yeah, basically everybody knew that ot wasn’t going to be the case, but we can still throw it in their faces.
or, you know, just switch to linux. several distros are basically just as usable out of box as anything microsoft has released.
I’ve tried and gaming is a lot better than it was, but I still prefer Windows in that department though I do stick with SteamOS for the Steam Deck and haven’t bothered running Windows on it.
If only SteamOS was made generally available.
And I honestly prefer the non-terminal solutions that are generally in Windows.Users here generally seem to forget that
1: Not all users are power users
2: Professional software is generally not developed for Linux but either Windows or Mac. Linux is an afterthought
3: Not all programs run as you’d need it to. Wine and Proton can work for single use but I don’t see daily activity going very well with it.For downvoters on point 3 saying they do it:
I tried the EA launcher with Proton on the SteamDeck. It’s a hacky solution and in general a not supported environment. Good luck getting help from EA if something goes wrong.
This also applies to general work environments: HPE (server brand of HP) for example denies support if it sees a non-HPE product that may interfere with your support case. They ask you to remove it and then send another support file.2: Professional software is generally not developed for Linux but either Windows or Mac. Linux is an afterthought
Really depends. E.g. Houdini, Blender and Nuke are Linux-first as Linux took over IRIX’s market share, and generally that of Unix workstations.
All three predate Windows 95, the whole PC and Windows platform back then was considered cheap toys for accounting and management, not serious computing.
Good to know. It also depends highly on the industry, industry age (e.g. 3D modeling isnt 300 years old) and target group.
Buuuut I need to say it…Generally
I wrote that word for a meaning. ;)
That’s all well and good, but choosing Microsoft is choosing their bullshit too. It’s your right to choose, but if you’re sharing a rowboat with an alligator don’t be amazed when it eats your chicken. (or something like that)
Windows on steam deck is the most awful experience. There is a reason why tablet PC’s and non-laptop portables failed until apple used fanboy power to make tablets viable again.
yeah I’m mid transition myself - probably switch for good when win10 goes EoL. I tried win11 and hate it.
i run dual-boot on my PC, these days i’m only switching over to windows for gaming since
nvidia GPUs don’t get a lot of support on the linux sidenvidia doesn’t go out of there way to support linux as much as AMD doesWhat kind of support are you missing? I run Linux exclusively with an Nvidia card and see regular driver updates (not as frequently as the kernel, for example, but still).
Is Ray Tracing and various DLSS features available out of the box now? Last I looked into it they were still a bit unstable / hackable to get properly setup if they worked at all.
I watch lot of HDR content on my PC with the HDR signal being sent to my display TV instead of having to fall back to tone mapping. Last I checked HDR wasn’t working on Linux. Been checking in on it for several years, but it always seems to be being worked on but not ready for release.
i didn’t phrase it too well; what i meant was that nvidia doesn’t support linux as much as AMD seems to.
nvidia GPUs don’t get a lot of support on the linux side.
First time I’m hearing about this. What do you mean? You get regular, automatic driver updates and they work… what is missing?
Older drivers for older cards are also available, although this may depend on the distribution rather than Nvidia.
Vulkan is basically unsupported by nVidia on anything before the 20-series on Linux. My 1060 6GB can only manage around 4-5 FPS at 1080p in some games as a result while others work totally fine. In addition, the drivers aren’t open source, so no one can go in and fix that problem.
Not really an option for the M$ dependent corpos
yes, but the Enterprise level license usually lasts longer than the individual license does. Enterprise level you’re basically stuck in that ecosystem, you’ve got tools written for it. I remember when IE6 was the latest hotness and then everyone struggled to get away from it for years and years but integral revenue generating tools relied on it.
I am starting to make the effort in switching but honestly, it’s not going as easily as I hoped… I got my old Surface Go running fully on Mint now and I’ve got some frustrations trying to make it work the way I want. I’m sure I’ll get there, but what seemed like a fun project has become frustrating.
Next I plan on setting up dual booting on my gaming setup, which I suspect should be less frustrating than trying to run Linux on Microsoft hardware. If that goes smoothly I’ll wipe Windows on the machine and switch fully to Mint there.
Only thing I don’t think I can let go of Windows on is my work laptop. I use too much MS office suite stuff for work and have to move documents between people all the time. I already tried using Libre Office at work a few years back already and it just didn’t work out, especially Power Point / Impress.
Overall, yeah, I think we should all start making a move off Windows when I see the state of things, it’s just… not that easy for everyone.
Accidentally read petition as putin lol
nah he’s still crying about Win98
I’m still on Windows 10. Are the complaints people have over windows 11 overblown or valid?
Honestly, a bit of both. It probably gets more hate than it deserves but there’s a lot of pointless change just for the sake of changing things. It’s better than Win10 on a Surface, touch screen and pen support have improved. But beyond that, I don’t really see a reason to jump to it until they force the issue by ending support for 10.
Was forced to switch to 11 on my work laptop so now I’m working on transitioning to Linux for work. In 11 you have to fight the os more than ever to get the experience you want. I used a program to change Explorer to be similar to how it was on 10, and when I switched back to the default one it’s very noticeably slower than custom. It’s especially noticeable when sharing screen in teams, it feels very slow and laggy, crashes frequently.
“explorer randomly talking focus” nuff said
buttons in taskbar (for app) grouped and can’t be ungrouped, killing my workflow. piece of garbage…
Look like Microsoft added it back in recent update
Thaqnks for the heads up, I remember having read somewhere this should be coming back, but my system didn’t receive that update as it seems… I’ll wait and see.
“Please sir, could I have some more?” - windows user
“Huh, what?” - Linux user
“Huh, what?” - Linux user with broken audio driver
Linux kernel is huge, I bet it has support for more audio devices than Windows or MacOS, as it is used not only on PCs.
audio driver support in Linux is good enough these days.
and if it doesn’t work in your specific hardware, that’s your hardware’s fault and not Linux’s.
It’s like buying a Raspberry Pi and saying “windows doesn’t work”. You’ve acquired the wrong hardware.
