Trump has waffled on whether the Israel-Gaza war should end. But speaking to wealthy donors behind closed doors, he said that he supports Israel’s right to continue “its war on terror.”
Former president Donald Trump promised to crush pro-Palestinian protests on college campuses, telling a roomful of donors — a group that he joked included “98 percent of my Jewish friends” — that he would expel student demonstrators from the United States, according to participants in the roundtable event with him in New York.
I think you’re wrong. I think if Democrats lose this election they will do their analysis and focus groups and surveys and if it points to the decisive issue being Gaza then they will change their attitude on Gaza - even if marginally, they will be forced to.
As for me, I just got my right to vote 2 years ago and I’ve been living here 25 years. I’m going to vote. I’m just not voting for Biden or Trump. I’ll write uncommitted or blank or something.
This is what democracy should be. Candidates lose votes if they don’t act in a manner congruent with the beliefs of the base. This “vote no matter what because the alternative is worse” is not democracy. If you don’t have a choice, you don’t have a vote. You’re headed same direction either way.
You can think that we are wrong all you want. But we can point to evidence that you’re wrong. It didn’t happen in 1980. It didn’t happen in 2000. It didn’t happen in 2016. And it didn’t happen any number of times before that.
Literally the only time in at least the last 50 years. The Democrats actually listened and changed their behavior. Was when they were primaried by someone much more Progressive and committed. They saw the turn out for Sanders and changed because of it. They’ve never changed for non-turnout. Or to court the voters of third-party candidates that struggle to even break single digits.
Civil rights wasn’t passed because of non-voting or even protests. It was passed because of a desire to win the near guaranteed votes of that group. If they weren’t, neither a group would have passed it yet.
Teaching them requires strong candidates to primary them with and pull them to listen to you. Blame democrats for not primary themselves all you want it’s just kind of foolish. You and we as a whole we need to start preparing now to primary candidates at every level of government in all upcoming elections. That’s how they listen.
They should have had a primary in 2024 if their only candidate was a genocide supporter. If Democrats lose because of this, because they didn’t, I’ll be so pissed.
Perhaps. But neither party has ever primary and incumbent.
Just like 2016, right?
I’ll write
uncommitted or blank or somethingexterminate Palestinians.Biden is in a tough spot. He is required by law to provide military aid.
It’s not the law making him do this.
You’re not wrong. That is how the American electoral system should work. But Trump and Project 2025 would fundamentally break the American experimental democracy. There may not be a viable means to elect a Democratic or another party in 2028.
See, you can advocate for Biden without defending a genocide. It can be done ✅
You certainly can.
Biden rejoined the Paris Climate Agreement, revoked the Keystone Pipeline permit, created a 13 million acre federal petroleum reserve for Alaskan wildlife, greatly increased oil site lease cost, signed $7B in solar subsidies, enacted the Inflation Reduction act to support clean energy, created the CHIPS Act to improve reliance on domestic technology, reenacted Net Neutrality, repealed Title 42, ended the Muslim Ban, reinstated the sanctions on Israeli settlement on Palestinian territory, signed the Equality Act for LGBTQ+ rights, restored gay rights to beneficiaries, reenacted trans care anti-discrimination law, signed the Respect for Marriage Act, enabled unspecified gender on US Passports, rejoined WHO, rescheduled marijuana, reducing drug costs with the American Rescue Plan Act…
Trump repealed 112 climate regulations, left the Paris Climate Agreement, disbanded the pandemic response team stalling national pandemic response, left the WHO, repealed trans care anti-discrimination law, repealed gay rights to beneficiaries, enacted Title 42 and the Muslim ban, repealed sanctions on Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory, repealed Net Neutrality, provided tax cuts to the wealthy that further widened our already exploitative wealth inequality, increased tariffs on goods costing the consumers, repealed the ACA without replacement, seated the conservatives in SCOTUS that repealed Roe v. Wade…
It’s not a contest if you’ve been paying attention.
Is that from memory? Where can I find that list for future reference? Now, if we can get our compatriots to stop defending the genocide, we might be able to sway some votes. The genocide is an albatross around Biden’s neck and should be downplayed.
I originally typed it out here and saved it. I add to it when I see more points. Feel free to use it whenever you’d like. You can save a comment by tapping the star directly beneath the comment. You’ll find it in your saved section under your user profile.
I’m fairly certain Blinken is the problem. POTUS doesn’t listen to news or Congress over the State Department. He needs to provide Biden with a thorough and conclusive report to use as a platform for withdrawal.
I saved it. Biden can’t change his position on Israel, there is too much money and history for that to happen. But his accomplishments can be used to help people remember how bad Trump was. It’s the only play. We can’t defend an indefensible genocide, but we can acknowledge it, and maximize the other differences between Trump and Biden.
I think his pause while awaiting the State Department report was indicative of his interest in shifting supplied munitions to Iron Dome defense only, had Blinken reported crimes. It was only upon receiving an inconclusive report that Biden agreed to resume shipments as agreed. He doesn’t want to contribute to genocide, he just needs a founded reason to breach munitions agreements that have already been established. The ICJ is not enough to force the hand of POTUS. It has to come from our own intelligence.
With that being said, you’re right. He’s the far better candidate in every capacity, including Israel. Trump will nuke and pave Gaza and Rafah just to tear the bandage off, before claiming isolationism and letting Putin take what he wants.
Blnken’s a Zionist:
That’s true. That just means he believes in the wrongful eviction of the Palestinians and claiming the land as Israel. It doesn’t necessarily mean that he sees the Palestinian people as the sub-human animals that the far-right in Netanyahu’s corner claim them to be. There’s a difference in supporting Israel’s defense and funding their genocidal expansion. If it’s the latter, then he needs to be replaced.
Ya, a lot of genocide apologia in this thread. It’s off putting, racist, and paternalistic. There’s got to be other ways to support Biden without saying he’ll be good for those poor Palestinians, the group they’re currently helping bomb. Plus, his administration has threatened the ICC and UN for trying to protect them.
But the fact of the matter is that without huge changes to our political systems, the Democrats will just bring out the Project 2025 excuse from now on forever. This is the most important election in the world. Just like the last one. And the one before it. And the next one. Like in this thread, criticism is impossible against the Democrats, even while they push a genocide, for the alternative is Trump or someone like him. Not to say that Project 2025 doesn’t scare the crap out of me. But it does seem best for them to always have the US on the edge of fascism as a cudgel.
We need to put our petty ideological differences aside and determine a course of action. If I were asked, my vote would be to vote for Biden (despite the genocide), and organize ourselves into a coalition, a voting bloc.
But we need to be more understanding of those that will vote third party or never vote for Biden because of the genocide. Their grievances are just.
That’s a fascist’s wishlist, it’s a bunch of stuff that’s never going to happen, but it’s a useful cudgel for some people to bludgeon dissenters with.
Even if we underestimate them, it’s still horrific what they will achieve.