This would be true if Democrats didn’t actively surpress and ignore younger and progressive voters and candidates, instead focusing on a non-existent class of swing voters.
If a candidate goes out of their way to not represent you, derides and ignores your needs, why would you vote for them?
The Democratic party is broken by corporate greed and has been since Citizens United. People are wise to that reality and have no interest in participating in a system that doesn’t protect them, fight for their rights or show any real interest in progress.
That doesn’t make anything the person you responded to, wrong. Not participating is the same as not voting which the consequences were outlined above. Anyone that doesn’t vote for Biden because he’s not catering to them as some sort of “fuck you” to the system, is a fucking idiot. The thought that somehow the alternative is a better option is asinine. Life’s not fair, and sometimes no. Preferred decisions have to be made. In this particular case, there’s only one right decision. Every other choice aligns with Trump, Russia, and fascism, and is therefore, the wrong decision.
Well, no, if the Democratic party is only going to listen to their “moderate” neo-liberal swing voters then the only way of waking that demographic of people up is letting them experience the consequences until they “get it”.
Take RvW for example, it didn’t matter how loudly progressives warned people of the imminent failure of Dems to protect bodily autonomy, your average woman needed to go through the experience of losing RvW before they started to understand and give it a shit. And even now, idiots hail Ginsberg as some kind of hero feminist icon, they still don’t grasp the depth of the problems we’re facing as a nation.
From the responses here it sounds like we unfortunately need to learn more painful lessons before people understand that neoliberalism isn’t just the lesser of two evils, but is an abject failure unequipped to fight the war that needs to be fought. It needs to go yesterday.
You’re wrong, but ok. In a FPtP system, you have two options. Learning these lessons as you put it, is like throwing people under a runaway bus to slow it down. The consequences are far worse when you side with fascism, which is exactly what you’re promoting.
The consequences are already happening for people, you are just in a comfortable enough position where you can accept the status quo. To a lot of people it doesn’t matter and while you might say to those people “Fuck you,I don’t care if Dems gave failed you for forty years, I’m doing ok still so vote for who I say.” the bullying and demanding just isn’t working on people anymore.
Time for neoliberals to be the ones to start compromising. If they don’t want to they can come down here with everyone else and get an education.
Neoliberals aren’t going to compromise, they only compromise with facists. Not voting doesn’t spark change, it just intensifies the suffering of those vulnerable people. If you want change you have to riot. But you can do that and still vote so long as you avoid a felony conviction.
If those people that already are in a bad place think that voting for the worst candidate, which will for sure make things worse for them, will some how send a message and spark change, those people are idiots. That’s not how reality works. Vote for Biden and live to fight another day, or give up and vote fascist. Two options as it has always been.
If trump getting elected isn’t going to teach them anything. It’s just going to let fascists break the system further, and reduce the chance that things can get better in the future.
Everyone has to riot, and right now too many middle class liberal types are accepting of “half-way fascism” because it’s not effecting them.
They’re fine with the center left getting shoved to the side as “extreme”, they’re fine with minorities losing their rights as long as it’s not them, they’re fine with not looking too closely at how Dems have been culpable in the broken system we live in, looking too closely at the fact that Dems want things to stay exactly how they are and are ill-equipped and unwilling to fight the far-right.
The only way they get knocked out of that stupor is by being faced with the cold reality themselves.
Trump means an intensification of the genocide in Palestine. It will also kill a lot of vulnerable people in the US. It will also help push the right forward elsewhere in the world, since the US is an enormous, hegemonic force.
And you are putting your mark of approval on “lol, I don’t give a shit”
Genocide will happen regardless. Israel is going to do it no matter what and it will be worse for the actual people dying if finish the job trump is reelected. But hey who cares because you want more people to suffer to teach democrats a lesson.
Too much naivete to address in this post but I’d certainly omit the word “wise”. Not liking the options is one thing, refusing to vote for the better one when the other is credibly accused of espionage is fucking dumb. Young people can vote or not vote but if someone lectures me about not taking part in a broken system they’re going to get an earful about how they let assholes ruin their lives through inaction. No one’s going to get what they want by doing nothing and you will never get a candidate that fits you 100% (and if you do, you’re in a cult).
If a candidate goes out of their way to not represent you, derides and ignores your needs, why would you vote for them?
The recasting of voting as some sort of loyalty or allegiance or like a parasocial relationship you’re supposed to have with the candidate is weird and not how it works.
You would vote for them because it’ll produce a better outcome.
If you want to get the bums out of the Democratic party, so that we can vote for even better outcomes than the ones currently on the table, fuckin’ tell me how, because I’m starting to agree with you that it would be super important. But withholding votes for the better guy over the worse guy in the meantime is like refusing to look for a job until the rates of pay that you’re seeing on Indeed start to get higher. Simply not how it works and counterproductive to what you’re trying to accomplish.
Local elections. If no one is far left enough locally for you, there’s another option there. Run for office yourself. City counselors and school board positions get you in the system, to really fight it.
Local elections are where your vote matters the most, every time. Get your local friends to vote also and suddenly you’re a few percentage points.
This would be true if Democrats didn’t actively surpress and ignore younger and progressive voters and candidates, instead focusing on a non-existent class of swing voters.
If a candidate goes out of their way to not represent you, derides and ignores your needs, why would you vote for them?
The Democratic party is broken by corporate greed and has been since Citizens United. People are wise to that reality and have no interest in participating in a system that doesn’t protect them, fight for their rights or show any real interest in progress.
That doesn’t make anything the person you responded to, wrong. Not participating is the same as not voting which the consequences were outlined above. Anyone that doesn’t vote for Biden because he’s not catering to them as some sort of “fuck you” to the system, is a fucking idiot. The thought that somehow the alternative is a better option is asinine. Life’s not fair, and sometimes no. Preferred decisions have to be made. In this particular case, there’s only one right decision. Every other choice aligns with Trump, Russia, and fascism, and is therefore, the wrong decision.
Well, no, if the Democratic party is only going to listen to their “moderate” neo-liberal swing voters then the only way of waking that demographic of people up is letting them experience the consequences until they “get it”.
Take RvW for example, it didn’t matter how loudly progressives warned people of the imminent failure of Dems to protect bodily autonomy, your average woman needed to go through the experience of losing RvW before they started to understand and give it a shit. And even now, idiots hail Ginsberg as some kind of hero feminist icon, they still don’t grasp the depth of the problems we’re facing as a nation.
From the responses here it sounds like we unfortunately need to learn more painful lessons before people understand that neoliberalism isn’t just the lesser of two evils, but is an abject failure unequipped to fight the war that needs to be fought. It needs to go yesterday.
You’re wrong, but ok. In a FPtP system, you have two options. Learning these lessons as you put it, is like throwing people under a runaway bus to slow it down. The consequences are far worse when you side with fascism, which is exactly what you’re promoting.
The consequences are already happening for people, you are just in a comfortable enough position where you can accept the status quo. To a lot of people it doesn’t matter and while you might say to those people “Fuck you,I don’t care if Dems gave failed you for forty years, I’m doing ok still so vote for who I say.” the bullying and demanding just isn’t working on people anymore.
Time for neoliberals to be the ones to start compromising. If they don’t want to they can come down here with everyone else and get an education.
Neoliberals aren’t going to compromise, they only compromise with facists. Not voting doesn’t spark change, it just intensifies the suffering of those vulnerable people. If you want change you have to riot. But you can do that and still vote so long as you avoid a felony conviction.
If those people that already are in a bad place think that voting for the worst candidate, which will for sure make things worse for them, will some how send a message and spark change, those people are idiots. That’s not how reality works. Vote for Biden and live to fight another day, or give up and vote fascist. Two options as it has always been.
Um, has that ever worked? Did voting for Nader do anything in 2000? I mean, besides install Dumbya? Same question about voting for Stein in 2016…
If trump getting elected isn’t going to teach them anything. It’s just going to let fascists break the system further, and reduce the chance that things can get better in the future.
If you want to send a message you have to riot.
Everyone has to riot, and right now too many middle class liberal types are accepting of “half-way fascism” because it’s not effecting them.
They’re fine with the center left getting shoved to the side as “extreme”, they’re fine with minorities losing their rights as long as it’s not them, they’re fine with not looking too closely at how Dems have been culpable in the broken system we live in, looking too closely at the fact that Dems want things to stay exactly how they are and are ill-equipped and unwilling to fight the far-right.
The only way they get knocked out of that stupor is by being faced with the cold reality themselves.
Removed by mod
Removed, keep it civil.
And you’re literally putting your mark of approval on genocide.
Trump means an intensification of the genocide in Palestine. It will also kill a lot of vulnerable people in the US. It will also help push the right forward elsewhere in the world, since the US is an enormous, hegemonic force.
And you are putting your mark of approval on “lol, I don’t give a shit”
Genocide will happen regardless. Israel is going to do it no matter what and it will be worse for the actual people dying if finish the job trump is reelected. But hey who cares because you want more people to suffer to teach democrats a lesson.
Too much naivete to address in this post but I’d certainly omit the word “wise”. Not liking the options is one thing, refusing to vote for the better one when the other is credibly accused of espionage is fucking dumb. Young people can vote or not vote but if someone lectures me about not taking part in a broken system they’re going to get an earful about how they let assholes ruin their lives through inaction. No one’s going to get what they want by doing nothing and you will never get a candidate that fits you 100% (and if you do, you’re in a cult).
The recasting of voting as some sort of loyalty or allegiance or like a parasocial relationship you’re supposed to have with the candidate is weird and not how it works.
You would vote for them because it’ll produce a better outcome.
If you want to get the bums out of the Democratic party, so that we can vote for even better outcomes than the ones currently on the table, fuckin’ tell me how, because I’m starting to agree with you that it would be super important. But withholding votes for the better guy over the worse guy in the meantime is like refusing to look for a job until the rates of pay that you’re seeing on Indeed start to get higher. Simply not how it works and counterproductive to what you’re trying to accomplish.
Local elections. If no one is far left enough locally for you, there’s another option there. Run for office yourself. City counselors and school board positions get you in the system, to really fight it.
Local elections are where your vote matters the most, every time. Get your local friends to vote also and suddenly you’re a few percentage points.