I am an Indian and I have noticed that Indians are way too proud of their country for some reason and at the same time lack any civic sense towards it, they are extremely loud and extremely proud. We feel like the world revolves around India and our culture is superior to that of others. Also, a considerable chunk of the population has been sold the “India is a world-leader” myth and they think India is somehow leading the world in innovation, science and technology, human development etc.,
Now, I know for a fact that this is not true, when I try to gauge the perception of Indians abroad on Twitter, I get pretty negative results, but Twitter has nothing good to say about any group of people, so… I kinda wanted to know what you people though of India, don’t base it upon the etnic Indians who might be your friends and are decent people, but base it upon the news you read, the stories you hear from those Indians, etc.
Fantastic food. Entirely too rapey.
Send bobs.
But seriously I can’t help but think of the good foods. I’m curious if India does food diplomacy like Thailand does.
Since no one else mentioned it, The Baha’i Lotus Temple in New Delhi is on my bucket list to visit. Absolutely gorgeous architecture.
An architect that was based in London when it was built said of the project, “such a building would be extremely difficult to build in London. In India it will prove impossible.” Not only did you guys build it, but there were 0 workplace fatalities in the process of building it.
Norwegian here. Not that often I think of India tbh, but here is a short bullet point list
- Massive overpopulation
- Rich and dirt poor at the same time
- Castes
- Politically governed by nationalists
- Rape stories
- Massive market thats the only reason we care about India
- Good tech industry (moon landing?)
- Don’t go to Kashmir
- Holi
- Bollywood
- “Indian” food (know that some protein in some sauce with nan and rice is not all an entire subcontinent can offer)
Last show I saw about India was that James May show on Amazon
- Massive potential
- Nationalistic
- Somewhat racist
- Unfair caste system
- Not enough bathrooms
- Poverty and hunger
- Extremely rich people
- Excellent food
- Food poisoning
- Nice people
- Misogynistic
- Rich history
- Modi vs INDIA election
- Smart pivot to service sector
- Tata steel
- Lots of languages
- Diverse nature
Going to be a superpower soon if they manage to create a robust middle class and get some nice institutions up and running. India is doing good but it’s hard to manage a country on that scale without being, like, China.
Generally, I think of India positively, but your march towards authoritarianism worries me. The last election lessened that worry a bit, but I still feel nervous about a regional nuclear war* between you and Pakistan or a land war with China, particularly as the region dries out.
As long as India strives to be a democracy and outlooks between you and Pakistan lighten, I feel pretty good about you guys.
*a regional nuclear war could cause seasonal disruptions to the entire planet, like some massive volcano eruptions that have dimmed the planet for a decade or more.
My background is US.
My background is US.
Ah yes, self-titled world’s police.
your march towards authoritarianism worries me
Yeah, you may want to rethink that one given how the US acts.
Yeah, I poke fun at your comment, but I mostly want to push back on this idea of “authoritarianism.” So here comes a bit of a rant, but hopefully a compelling one. The problem with authority isn’t that it exists or that it is used, but who holds that authority, how it is used, and who benefits from how it is used.
Leadership stems from authority. Parenting stems from authority. Social contracts are upheld through their authority. Saying “no” is using a personal form of authority. The bartender cutting me off is an authoritarian act! You know what else is authoritarian? “Bringing democracy” to another country. (Seriously, how is that in any way democratic?)
Authority is just an active extension of power. Both authority and power are neutral. They aren’t inherently good or bad, but they can be used for either. Good and bad themselves are mostly a matter of perspective, who do they affect and how are what we care about. How are people affected by authority, how that power is used, and who are affected by it are a few of the aspects that help shape what we view as good or bad use of authority.
So if whether authority and power are good or bad is dependent on how they are used, then it matters a whole lot who has that power and what their interests are. Do they share their interests with you? Do they share them with most people? Are they using that power to mainly benefit themselves or to benefit others?
I would say that it doesn’t matter that power and authority exist and are used, they are a part of existence. Who has that power and their interests are what actually matter. Authoritarianism is an empty concept, lacking any real substance. Every decision you make is authoritarian. Upholding social contracts is authoritarian. Staging revolutions and quashing them are both authoritarian. ALL governments are authoritarian otherwise we could do whatever we wanted!
You live in the US, can you walk into a grocery store and a small amount of food because you need it? No, because it against the law. You must use US dollars. Can you go pay in a foreign currency or trade in other goods? No, unless the owners of the store forbid it. Can you diddle or traffick kids for other people to abuse? No, US laws forbids it (but they’ll excuse it if you’re rich enough, because money grants power). Can you walk into Congress or any business and use your authority to make them operate exactly as you want? No, you don’t have that power.
Instead of focusing on the empty word, authoritarian, a word that is essentially, and often baselessly, used to mean “evil thing we don’t agree with,” we should instead be looking at who holds the power that lends that authority, what are the interests of those with power and whether those interests align with ours.
You don’t like a government because it leans too far from your interests? That’s a good reason not to like them. That’s a good reason to go authoritarian on their asses. You don’t like a government just because they use their authority? That’s hypocritical. You use your authority all the time and may even do so to overthrow them…if you had the power.
I still feel nervous about a regional nuclear war* between you and Pakistan or a land war with China, particularly as the region dries out.
Neither will happen. Both our politicians and Pakistani generals love sabre-rattling. Both also love their wealth and status too much to do anything stupid. And while China can really hurt us in a potential war, they can do at least as much damage by stopping exports to us.
- large
- tap water can be dirty
- great curry
- massive population
- caste system
- makes many YouTube tutorials
- has some beef with Pakistan
- likes to bob their heads
- arranged marriages
- spices
- really hot and humid
- as other people have mentioned, can be a bit unruly at times
One of the largest countries in the world and a hell of a lot of ethnic diversity, so it’s hard to make generalizations. Kerala and, say, UP are very different. But here’s my attempt.
Geopolitically as an entity it’s currently suffering from some of the same things the world’s other largest countries (China, US, Indonesia) are suffering from - namely: populist leaders and a large group of poorly educated people in the population propping them up.
Consequently there is way too much militant nationalism and complacency about aggression towards other nations, territorialism, persecution of certain ethnic minorities, religious fundamentalism. All the biggest countries have those traits at the moment, so it’s not specifically a reflection on India.
In terms of resource and development it’s dealing with a similar situation to other ex colony LICs - years of resource exploitation left it with a low GDP per capita and consequently major challenges when it comes to provision of infrastructure (eg pollution management), health, education, living standards etc.
India has made huge strides in the past but the current wave of populism relies on leveraging social conflict (as it does elsewhere in the eorld) so I think that growth has slowed. For the same reason the fault lines along ethnic, religious, caste lines - which colonialism entrenched or deepened within the region - are still a big aspect.
My personal experiences with Indian people is that just like from anywhere else there are good and bad. Cultured, well educated people are easier to deal with because there is more shared knowledge. Statistically speaking, many of the world’s worst arseholes you are going to meet are going to be from India, China and the US, and that holds up.
I’m in a Western country and 9 out of 10 phone calls I recieve are scam calls from India. Right now in my country, there are Indians with temporary working visas protesting because they don’t want to return to India.
India does not seem like a place I want to visit.
In all honesty, I think most people can’t tell an Indian accent from a Filipino accent. I’ve heard primarily Filipino voices on customer service calls for decades now
So from the perspective of being in the United States. Remote Indian work it’s cheap but of extremely low quality. This ranges from call center workers to programming and engineering work.
This is usually a sign of the company trying to cheap out and having poor products in general. So it’s kind of a compounding problem.
Politically India seemes racist, nationalist, and terrible on climate change. I’m from the USA so yes I know we are not great on these topics as well.
Having been to India a few times from inside here it’s what I’ve noticed in the country.
The poverty and wealth gap between Indians and westerners means almost everybody wants money from you and to up charge you. From beggars, to chai vendors, to high end stores and hotels. They also love hidden fees and you have to be vigilant about details. This puts me on a constant tense alertness when dealing with people that gets very draining.
I’ve also spent time with an indian family during holy. My western friend was dating a member of the family and we went for a visit. The family was very generous and welcoming. It was the only time in India when I was relaxed and able to chat and enjoy the company.
Racism and classism abound. The ways different ethnic groups treat each other and try to force the use of their language on the other group. For example a Hindi and Malayalam language standoff when I was in Kerala.
Or when at a store that sells stone art has two clearly miserable lower cast people working a human powered cutting tool for the tourists when you can hear the sound of high speed electric tools from the back room.
Animals other then cows are treated horribly. Elephants in particular always looked miserable and broken.
People with government jobs are arrogant and lazy. From customs and immigration to the national parks. I arrived 20 min before closing at a national park to buy tickets for a late night tour that was latter that evening. The ticket both was empty with one other person waiting. Two minutes before closing the guy came to the window in a towel because he had been showing before getting off work.
The belief in crap science abounds. I got an ayurvedic massage that wasn’t a very skilled massage and then the guy tried to give me medical advice. Several people tried to explain that the ayurvedic guys were just as good as doctors. On way out another of the ayurvedic “doctors” tried to sell me a medicine that he assured would remove belly fat and regrow hair. This from a fat bald man.
The fiet time I was in India Modi had just won his first term as Prime Minister while I was there. There was a huge procession of angry young men yelling and pushing people out of the way. I assumed they were from the losing party. My driver informed me that no they had just won the election.
It was clear that this wasn’t a jubilant celebration of success. It was a angry group that now had the power to do what they wanted.
I know i’ve been negative and there is a fair amount of nice things in India but they always are fleeting and overshadowed by something. In the multiple times i’ve been to India i’ve never had a bad meal and there are a lot of nice people. I just think they are constantly at odds with each other.
The most Indian moment I had was drinking tea while enjoying the smell of the spice fields. Then the wind shifted and all I could smell was the stench of shit and diesel from the cesspool over the hill.
Extremely dirty. Why does nobody care about all the shit and litter out there? What caused such ignorance to form?
I can speak to an unfortunate trend where our country (US) imports poorly trained Indian medical doctors who provide poor people with shitty medical care. This is a whole industry. I was exposed to it while working in the medical imaging field and I’m sure that it kills poor people in this country every day. Both of the most blatant criminal abuses coming from medical doctors that I was personally close to (one committed insurance fraud by performing unnecessary heart surgery on patients who DID NOT NEED IT the other sexually assaulted women on his examining table) also were, sadly, Indians.
It’s MUCH easier to get a medical degree in India than it is in America, if you’re high caste. Meaning high caste students in India who would NOT pass medical school in America become doctors all the time and then immigrate.
Once you have that MD after your name, in terms of legally establishing a private practice in America, your Indian MD is just as good as one from Harvard or Colombia. And Insurance companies FUCKING LOVE YOU because you charge 70% what the guys from Harvard or Colombia charge. They have programs in the Insurance industry to help reach out to immigrating Indian doctors and get them into network with the Insurance providers.
So I had a job travelling all over the US setting up, repairing and supporting medical imaging computers for private practices and what I saw in 4 out of 5 Indian owned clinics was
- Dirty facilities.
- Old, poorly maintained equipment (I have stories about having to support 5.25 inch floppy drives in 2010).
I also saw
- People sent away with unanswered questions / incomplete diagnosis because the doctor only had 20 minutes for each patient.
- Doctors who spoke English so poorly their patients could not understand what they were being told (especially when said doctors were treating Mexican people who spoke English as a second language anyway).
- A doctor who berated an autistic woman because she was moving too slowly and he had lots of other patients to see.
- Not to mention doctors failing to understand some of the basic functions of the medical imaging tech I was supporting for them in ways that were disturbing like “You have the tools here to provide a higher level of care to your patients but you DON’T KNOW HOW to use them.”
- Also lots of doctors that were arrogant and dismissive towards me, a highly skilled engineering professional.
I got to contrast this with a couple of black doctors in the South who had shabby clinics in old buildings and old poorly maintained equipment but ENTIRELY different attitudes towards their patients and LOTS of white and Asian doctors who run the kind of clean, modern clinics I myself as a white collar professional from a privileged background had previously taken for granted.
I want to be VERY clear this is NOT a race thing. It is a socio-economic / cultural problem.
A massive tangle of diverse kingdoms that have never quite hit their full potential. Current political situation is grim and disappointing and I am not particularly optimistic for them.
