There's a different way to build consumer hardware: creating an ecosystem for modularity & upgradability. Framework is reinventing laptops, and soon much mor...
I’d like to say that it’s useless but after experiencing dropping a full latte on my thinkpad some time ago and the magic drain holes working properly and the laptop surviving afterwards makes me really appreciative of the feature.
That’s the Framework logo. People have been talking about them a bit on here, as they’re relatively-modular, as laptops go.
I like the general idea, but they don’t really make the things that I care about modular. They let you:
Pick a keyboard layout. Okay, but this is basically available for other laptops. I’m just gonna get their US layout.
Pick little blocks that provide ports, like Ethernet or USB-A or DisplayPort or USB-C or audio. That’s not bad, but I’m broadly okay with the ports on a laptop today. It might be slightly nicer to pick exactly where they are or have another USB-C port, but for my needs, not a big issue. This one is their big selling point, and for some people, I can believe that it’s a really big deal.
Discrete video or no. That’s also fine, but a lot of vendors provide this option.
If one chooses a smaller keyboard on a larger laptop, spacers, which can be an LED array. That’s pretty unique, but I don’t know what I’d use it for. You can also get a numpad or “macropad”, but, again, not something that I’d use; if I’m gonna use macros, I’m gonna run them chorded off the main keyboard and keep my hands there. The numpad does say that it supports N-key rollover (NKRO), which could be a point for people playing certain video games, as you can have more keys down at once than a keyboard with a grid encoder, but doesn’t really affect me.
There also isn’t soldered-on memory or such, which is nice in terms of not paying a premium for it, but then, you’re also paying a premium for the laptop in the first place.
I’d like more battery size and a Thinkpad-style Synaptics (mechanical buttons) touchpad. But those aren’t options that they make modular.
Alright, other vendor provide an option to have or not to have discrete GPU. Can you change it once a better GPU is available? Can other laptop vendor swap out their display with a touch capable one when needed? (As of now, framework doesn’t have a touchscreen available yet, but IIRC, their board has the capabilities, but then again, their board is so modular that they can offer upgrade for trade-in). Can other vendor have bigger battery when you wanted the bigger battery without affecting other hardware choices? Framework batteries in the 13 series are improved purely by better chemistry. You can replace it with the bigger capacity one.
Edit: also, they are still a new company. Their hope is that 3rd party vendor is interested in making other modular part. The trackpad is a good example of it. It also can make some patented design available to the framework if the patent holder willing to make the accessory without giving up or licensing their patent.
Yea, the difference between my laptop today and an equivalent one 5 years ago is dramatic (both X series Lenovo’s) . The construction alone is completely different. The new one is slimmer, lighter, while dissipating more heat, and they’re the same brand and line. And let’s not talk about the difference from my 2008 Lenovo X.
This thing is no more my last laptop as my previous Lenovo X.
The Framework 13, yes. I bought my wife one. I bought another for a cousin. My company has been deploying them for other users. They have been nothing but spectacular.
The Framework 16, it’s still early, but it’s been riddled with bugs. The latest driver pack from late April seems to have fixed most of the issues I’ve been having, so we’ll see, but based on my experience so far, I can’t recommend anyone buy it until the get a few more driver and BIOS patches out.
Your Framework 16? That’s great! Mine had an issue where the GPU just disappeared until the BIOS updated. It’s been a few days now, and it seems to be rock solid. Most of my issues were GPU related.
Just curious. Proton takes all of that effort out of the equation, plus I’m willing to bet there aren’t as many driver problems, if there are any at all.
Proton can make games from the windows store that I already own work on Linux? Proton can make games that are borked rated on protondb work?
I love Linux as much as the next tech nerd, I have a SteamDeck that I essentially use as a laptop when away from home, and I tried dailying Manjaro on my main machine for a couple months. Proton doesn’t solve everything.
I can totally understand running windows on your main gaming machine, as that’s what I do. I don’t like it, but all of my games work. I also don’t want to have to re-buy games on Steam that I own via the Windows store.
Forbes isn’t great but their overall philosophy means it should last at least 10 years if you take care of it.
I have an acer c720 with Debian that still kinda works
That’s not really saying much if that’s all their shooting for. My last two desktops lasted 12+ years and just turned into severs afterwards. My 2013 MBP just got replaced as my daily driver last year and still works as a backup in a pinch. I use a Toshiba Haswell Intel laptop from 2013 as a dev kubernetes cluster. Unless you’re doing something wrong or need to be cutting edge, you should easily get 10yrs out of it. I want to know if I can get 20-30 out of this framework laptop, in theory I’d be possible with replacement parts and such. If framework is in business that long at last.
They’re a new company so we’ll still have to see if they’re as reliable as some older machines.
Providing parts and usb c adapters helps with longevity I guess
Apple doesn’t provide board-level schematics so that anyone with a good supplier and a steady hand with a soldering iron can fix their motherboard, though. You also can’t replace parts nearly as easily, even on older MacBooks. Swappable ports also help, so that if HDMI or displayport get replaced you can change to the new standard.
Accessing the RAM, wifi, and SSD are only 5 screws away, and they give you a screwdriver in the package.
Basically, Framework has provided so much information that you could practically build one from scratch yourself with enough determination and self-loathing.
Anyone got this information not in a video?
https://frame.work/
Doesn’t work for me since the next machine I buy needs to be waterproof. But good on them!
Why do you need a waterproof laptop? (I’m just curious)
Against spilled drinks.
I’d like to say that it’s useless but after experiencing dropping a full latte on my thinkpad some time ago and the magic drain holes working properly and the laptop surviving afterwards makes me really appreciative of the feature.
Don’t consume stuff over your device?
I have several bottles on my desk but if I eat or drink messy things near my keyboard, I place a towel over it.
For pooping in the hot tub, of course
Oh these guys. I love their idea but I’m with you on the water resistance.
I’ve been tempted to get one as an alternative Linux laptop to my MacBook.
That’s the Framework logo. People have been talking about them a bit on here, as they’re relatively-modular, as laptops go.
I like the general idea, but they don’t really make the things that I care about modular. They let you:
Pick a keyboard layout. Okay, but this is basically available for other laptops. I’m just gonna get their US layout.
Pick little blocks that provide ports, like Ethernet or USB-A or DisplayPort or USB-C or audio. That’s not bad, but I’m broadly okay with the ports on a laptop today. It might be slightly nicer to pick exactly where they are or have another USB-C port, but for my needs, not a big issue. This one is their big selling point, and for some people, I can believe that it’s a really big deal.
Discrete video or no. That’s also fine, but a lot of vendors provide this option.
If one chooses a smaller keyboard on a larger laptop, spacers, which can be an LED array. That’s pretty unique, but I don’t know what I’d use it for. You can also get a numpad or “macropad”, but, again, not something that I’d use; if I’m gonna use macros, I’m gonna run them chorded off the main keyboard and keep my hands there. The numpad does say that it supports N-key rollover (NKRO), which could be a point for people playing certain video games, as you can have more keys down at once than a keyboard with a grid encoder, but doesn’t really affect me.
There also isn’t soldered-on memory or such, which is nice in terms of not paying a premium for it, but then, you’re also paying a premium for the laptop in the first place.
I’d like more battery size and a Thinkpad-style Synaptics (mechanical buttons) touchpad. But those aren’t options that they make modular.
The difference being you can easily replace/upgrade any of those parts on a Framework laptop…
Alright, other vendor provide an option to have or not to have discrete GPU. Can you change it once a better GPU is available? Can other laptop vendor swap out their display with a touch capable one when needed? (As of now, framework doesn’t have a touchscreen available yet, but IIRC, their board has the capabilities, but then again, their board is so modular that they can offer upgrade for trade-in). Can other vendor have bigger battery when you wanted the bigger battery without affecting other hardware choices? Framework batteries in the 13 series are improved purely by better chemistry. You can replace it with the bigger capacity one.
Edit: also, they are still a new company. Their hope is that 3rd party vendor is interested in making other modular part. The trackpad is a good example of it. It also can make some patented design available to the framework if the patent holder willing to make the accessory without giving up or licensing their patent.
Yeah, but not as a user-serviceable module that can be replaced with minimal effort. I think you’re grossly oversimplifying this point.
They’re largely disregarding the fact that the laptop is easily repairable… They’re kinda missing the whole point of the device/company.
Yea, the difference between my laptop today and an equivalent one 5 years ago is dramatic (both X series Lenovo’s) . The construction alone is completely different. The new one is slimmer, lighter, while dissipating more heat, and they’re the same brand and line. And let’s not talk about the difference from my 2008 Lenovo X.
This thing is no more my last laptop as my previous Lenovo X.
I own the Framework Laptop 13 and 16. I can answer any questions you have.
Would you buy it again?
The Framework 13, yes. I bought my wife one. I bought another for a cousin. My company has been deploying them for other users. They have been nothing but spectacular.
The Framework 16, it’s still early, but it’s been riddled with bugs. The latest driver pack from late April seems to have fixed most of the issues I’ve been having, so we’ll see, but based on my experience so far, I can’t recommend anyone buy it until the get a few more driver and BIOS patches out.
I was Batch 1 and mine works perfectly. I love it.
Your Framework 16? That’s great! Mine had an issue where the GPU just disappeared until the BIOS updated. It’s been a few days now, and it seems to be rock solid. Most of my issues were GPU related.
Ah nice to hear it’s fixed!
Are you on Windows or Linux on the 16?
Windows 11. I want to play games without having to think about how to get it to work.
Just curious. Proton takes all of that effort out of the equation, plus I’m willing to bet there aren’t as many driver problems, if there are any at all.
Proton can make games from the windows store that I already own work on Linux? Proton can make games that are borked rated on protondb work?
I love Linux as much as the next tech nerd, I have a SteamDeck that I essentially use as a laptop when away from home, and I tried dailying Manjaro on my main machine for a couple months. Proton doesn’t solve everything.
I can totally understand running windows on your main gaming machine, as that’s what I do. I don’t like it, but all of my games work. I also don’t want to have to re-buy games on Steam that I own via the Windows store.
how many years do you think we should wait?
I have both laptops and they’re amazing.
Forbes isn’t great but their overall philosophy means it should last at least 10 years if you take care of it. I have an acer c720 with Debian that still kinda works
https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykarcz/2023/10/19/the-new-framework-13-is-the-last-laptop-you-need-to-buy/
That’s not really saying much if that’s all their shooting for. My last two desktops lasted 12+ years and just turned into severs afterwards. My 2013 MBP just got replaced as my daily driver last year and still works as a backup in a pinch. I use a Toshiba Haswell Intel laptop from 2013 as a dev kubernetes cluster. Unless you’re doing something wrong or need to be cutting edge, you should easily get 10yrs out of it. I want to know if I can get 20-30 out of this framework laptop, in theory I’d be possible with replacement parts and such. If framework is in business that long at last.
They’re a new company so we’ll still have to see if they’re as reliable as some older machines. Providing parts and usb c adapters helps with longevity I guess
Apple doesn’t provide board-level schematics so that anyone with a good supplier and a steady hand with a soldering iron can fix their motherboard, though. You also can’t replace parts nearly as easily, even on older MacBooks. Swappable ports also help, so that if HDMI or displayport get replaced you can change to the new standard.
Accessing the RAM, wifi, and SSD are only 5 screws away, and they give you a screwdriver in the package.
Basically, Framework has provided so much information that you could practically build one from scratch yourself with enough determination and self-loathing.
Something not mentioned in the video.
A second Boeing whistle blower just abruptly died.
Upvote for Boeing diss, but probably not the right community.