there is not a massive difference. jewish and israeli identity are intertwined. Many jewish people sought refuge in israel because they had nowhere else to go. European jews after WW2 or arab jews in the late 40s/50s who were expelled out of muslim countries, for example. And again, defending israel’s right to exist is not the same as defending the israeli government or the war crimes the idf commits.
yes, you are right: some israeli basketball player =/= the israeli state. sukhmel@programming.dev compared something a jewish individual said “We have to show that we’re better than them and win” to nazi ideology (“arian superiority”). Which is insane and antisemitic.
Moreover, comparing the israeli state to Nazi Germany is antisemitic as fuck too. There is no comparison to be made. It is trivializing Nazi ideology.
Giving terrorists the ability to control the population is enabling terrorism.
And leaving a people that has nowhere to go without food, medicine and water, what would that be? I’m asking genuinely, even if Hamas completely controls the distribution of aids within Gaza in order to maintain control, do you really believe that withdrawing these aids (and therefore causing death and starvation) would be at all justifiable?
Nah I did and it was easy. Get fucked, intolerant asshole.
👍🏻
Sorry, you can’t explain what is happening there in 5 lines of text and just say it is “not that messy and complex”. It might seem all straightforward within the narrative that you subscribe to, but that is at most only a part of the story. Just Have the decency and acknowledge that.
With a history as messy and complex as Palestine/Israel, yeah, obviously there is room for doubt. Refusing to have a discussion here doesn’t help anyone.
The accusation is 100% unfounded,
you don’t even know why exactly the player made these accusations. you’re just making assumptions.
Tolerance ends with the intolerant
Please, tell me precisely at which point the israeli team proved themselves intolerant?
I guess that is the big tagedy. which leads a lot of israeli into very militant and isolationist positions. Defending autonomy and self determination at all costs. Which also causes a lot of suffering on other people.
Well, it is common that the term “Israel” is used in a very generalizing way. “Ireland refuses to shake hands with Israel’s Basketball team” would be misleading in a similar way, but this generalization is so common that people don’t really notice it anymore
holocaust inversion is textbook modern antisemitism.
Giving people water and food is not funding terrorism. Starving people, denying them basic human rights and killing inocent people is funding terrorism. Yes, the humanitarian aids will also benefit hamas, but that does not give us the right to deny people their basic human rights
Now that is a fucking stretch. If you compare Jewish people with Nazis, don’t complain when people call you an antisemite.
its like going to qatar to play but wearing a rainbow flag, its virtue signaling
People didn’t even end up wearing rainbow flags because they were threatened with consequences. it was basically virtue-signaling-signaling
Well I think the reality is really complex and intertwined. Jewish people live in Israel because, historically speaking, they aren’t safe anywhere else. In this context here: It would be safe to say that the jewish player’s ancestors sought refuge in Israel because they were not welcome in the country they previously lived in (That could be Germany, Russia, Yemen, Iran etc). Many of them had no other choice and for many, Israel was the only hope for a life in dignity and safety. Completely separating jewish identity and israeli identity is impossible, it is connected.
but I don’t feel this is the way it’s being used
In a way I agree. The concept of anti-semitism is used when it is convenient. People are called anti-semites when they call out the war crimes commited by Israelis far right government, and likewise people categorically refuse to acknowledge that criticizing israel can be antisemitic. It is totally polarized, and people don’t care about context anymore.
what do you mean with Israel exists because of antisemitism?
Zionism is a movement founded by european jews who have suffered from persecution for centuries. So they believe that to protect themselves from their oppression, they needed an own nation. Jews started to understand themselves as a people. And not to mention, The Shoa made millions of people seek refuge in Israel/Palestine after world war two. So in short, if anti-semitism wasn’t a thing, the nation-state of Israel wouldn’t even be an idea.
even considering that, withdrawing support for civilians would be unethical
yeah, I think it is strangely twisted. It has nothing to do with the accusation of anti-semitism, it is just israel they don’t like. They never wanted to shake the hands of the israeli team, and just used the player’s comments as a reason.
I don’t. If you click on “Jews” on the wikipedia it says right in the beginning:
Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים, ISO 259-2: Yehudim, Israeli pronunciation: [jehuˈdim]) or Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group[12] and nation[13][14][15][16][17]
The jewish are a people. Many of them aren’t even religious. Antisemitism created israel. and not the other way around.
Here another wikipedia article on distinguishing antisemitism and criticism of Israel.
and the Israeli pre-emptively insulted the Irish basketball association
All I can find is that one team member called the irish team ‘quite antisemitic’. I just don’t see why that would be so upsetting. If it is unfounded, move on, don’t make a big deal out of it. For some reason, being accused of antisemitism is a bigger of a deal than actually being antisemitic. And that is the reason why I am confused about it. One Israeli player says the irish team is antisemitic, the irish team gets angry and refuses to shake hands. Alright. But what is the context here? what exactly are the reasons why the israeli player made these accusations? And why does nobody care about the context? Everyone already decided whether the accusations are unfounded or not, without even knowing anything about the context. Imagine someone being accused of racism without being given any sort of context. And everyone already has an opinion whether the accusation is unfounded or not. It’s just weird.
The 3 D’s are a useful tool to tell apart antisemitism and valid criticism.
that’s what’s odd about it. The article says the reason the team didn’t shake hands was because of ‘wholly inaccurate accusations of antisemitism’. So does that mean they would have shaken hands if one of the israeli team members had not made that accusation? Or were they just looking for a reason? This is what seems odd to me. If we imagine Ireland playing against an african nation that is also torn by war and conflict. If one of their team members accused the irish team of racism, and as a consequence, the entire irish team refuses to shake hands with the African team because they are so offended by these accusations. That would be really weird. That’s why I asked for more context.
There is a difference between the country and the religion and antisemitism is used for the religion alone.
That is incorrect. Anti-Judaism is the (much older) component of antisemitism that is used for religion alone. While it is wrong to say that any criticism against israel is antisemitic, it is equally wrong to say that criticizing Israel is never antisemitic. in some cases it is. Sadly many people refuse to have this discussion. Israel exists because of antisemitism, not the other way around.
it is funny how you don’t even react to anything I wrote and just say I am wrong and I believe in israeli propaganda.