So not what their running debt is but only whether they can take on a new, specific one.

I knew the criteria was out of the hands of EU-based lenders, but didn’t realise the data is also out of reach to the lender. I suppose it makes sense that the lender would get no info other than a yes or no, if lenders have no discretion.

I noticed A shop had a rediculously priced phone (like €800+, something I would never buy) but advertised something like €9 if you take a contract. So it’s effectively a loan factored into a locked-in phone service plan. IIUC, the phone shop must arrange that with a bank and does not have the option of taking on risk, and then the bank asks the central bank if customer X can handle that loan, correct?

You can reverse payments through the bank in the EU as well but it’s seldom necessary, since the companies tend to revert the charge willingly when confronted by the consumer protection bureaus.

I’ve only had to resort to bank reverse a couple if times.

One was when I ordered a pair of shoes of what appeared to be an Italian website. It later turned out it was a scam site that listed popular models that were not made anymore and then sent you a ridiculously poorly made knock-off copy from China. I explained the issue to my bank and showed the knockoffs I got and a week or so later the charge was reversed.

That’s quite a surprise. I heard SWIFT/IBAN transfers were permanent and irreversable. I heard of mistakes being corrected but it required the two banks to collude and the bank of the recipient to do a money grab on their account, which I suppose would be impossible if a criminal closes their account. I wonder if your bank took a loss or if they colluded with the other bank. IIRC, banks have a minimum “investigation” fee of like €25 plus an hourly rate to pay bankers to deal with bad transactions. Did your bank offer that service for free?

The only similar things I know is the central bank keeping a listing of “unpaid credit” which make ban you from getting any new credit for a certain time.

Indeed that’s what I’m talking about. In Belgium it seems consumers have no control over whether a creditor can access the central bank’s records. Apparently the central bank simply trusts that creditors are checking records in response to an application for credit. I would like to know if any EU countries make use of an access code so consumers can control which creditors can see their records.

I don’t mean to imply anything about scoring, but certainly there must be some kind of mechanism to expose bad debtors to lenders.

In Belgium, there are no private credit bureaus but there is a central bank. Belgian banks are obligated to report loan defaults and cash transactions to the central bank, and creditors are obligated to check the central bank’s records. Consumers have no way to control creditors access to their records in the central bank. It seems to be trust based. The central bank apparently trusts that a creditor is checking a consumer’s file in connection with an application for credit by the consumer.

Young voters did this, ironically enough, according to BBC World News. Young people struggling to get jobs after graduation think that right wing parties will fix that.

So as older generations are trying not to hand-off a burning planet to the young, the young are signing up for a burning planet under some delusion that right wingers will get them jobs. Schools have apparently failed to teach kids that the jobs they get under conservative governance are shit jobs – lousy pay and lousy benefits.

My god… “Consumer power” is a myth, there’s no evidence of it working for anything significant.

I guess you are not following Gaza. McDonalds in Israel decided to give free meals to Israeli soldiers. McDonalds customers who boycott Israel impacted McDonalds’ bottom line. And it’s a franchise. The McDonalds shops in Israel had different ownership than McDonalds outside Israel (where the boycott was impacting). So in response McDonalds HQ directly bought out all Israeli branches in order to stop the support to Israeli troops, just to protect their brand.

Lidl and Aldi both started taking a hit in Europe because their produce from Israel was being boycotted. Aldi got caught removing the origin label from their produce when Israel was the origin. Lidl got caught falsifying the label by displaying a different region. If the boycott was insignificant, there would be insufficient motivation for a grocery chain to commit fraud against their customers. So I boycott the whole Lidl chain and Aldi North, not just Israeli products.

Organize your workplace

Or boycott without organising, as this person did:

https://slrpnk.net/post/4687232

Indeed. And it’s worth noting as well that Cloudflare encourages admins to deploy heavy websites, pushes graphical CAPTCHA (which adds weight), and makes text browsers less usable. So I boycott Cloudflare, as well as Google, Amazon, and Microsoft. Lemmy.world uses CF, so changing instances to get off Cloudflare is also a climate action.

It seems anti-immigration is driving all these right wing votes. And xenophobia manifests from the naïve idea that immigrants will somehow reduce incomes.

Well, you can vote harder. The polls are not the only place you vote. Every purchase is a vote. Most people neglect their consumer power. I’m boycotting hundreds (if not thousands) of harmful companies and products, including Amazon. You can always vote harder by investigating the shops and brands you support. You can investigate whether your bank invests in the fossil fuel energy and change banks (or better, become unbanked). You can follow the !climate_action_individual@slrpnk.net community.

E.g. certainly one small thing @lurch@sh.itjust.works can do is ditch sh.itjust.works for a different instance. Website weight has quadrupled since Cloudflare took hold because CF encourages web admins to create heavy websites. sh.itjust.works is CF-based.

Indeed. What a setback. I will continue practicing individual climate action (!climate_action_individual@slrpnk.net), which is the only control we have now.

Ungoogled Chromium with uMatrix running over a Tor circuit gave Yahoo’s typical blurred out paywall yesterday. Today (likely on a different Tor circuit) it gives “Too many requests – error 999.”

Engadget/yahoo is fully enshitified. If you can read that article it probably means your browser is insufficiently defensive. A tl;dr bot would be useful here.

I think it’s too hard for many to grasp the full consequence of surveillance via forced banking. They link cash to privacy which they then mentally reduce to “confidentiality”. It’s a lossy reduction but in the naïve brain privacy=confidentiality. They don’t realise privacy is about /control/, not just purely infosec concept of confidentiality, which then leads to the mental short-sightedness of thinking they’re dealing with “paranoia” (which is hinted in vzq’s next reply).

From there, I don’t have the answer as far as how to convey the full depth of the whole concept of privacy within the span of a post or comment that’s short enough to not be automatically ignored.

It’s not spontaneous shopping. People don’t walk around with dirty clothes either. A laundromat inside an apartment building for the residents living therein is not in the market for people walking around. Customers do not need to carry around cash and need not buy a special wallet because they are walking directly from their apartment to the basement on a planned basis. They can put the cash in a sandwich bag and set it on top of their clothes.

Banks violate human rights when they treat people differently based on their national origin. The privacy abuses actually also undermines human rights, as well as environmental harm inherent in forced periodic phone upgrades and in the banking industry’s fossil fuel investments. So when a consumer demands #forcedBanking because they don’t personally like the burden of carrying cash, it’s rather selfish that they prioritize some trivially esoteric convenience/novelty above human rights and also above people’s need to be free from nannies. So there is a very strong case for people to not bank by choice even if the bank accepts them. By comparison, it’s fair to dismiss anyone who supports forced banking simply on the basis of not liking the inconvenience of cash.

A lot of wallets are also badly designed because they lack a means to secure coins. Look for a wallet that has a zipper compartment on the side and you’ll be less annoyed with coins.

Just you wait for AI powered laundromats.

Can’t wait for that… “you paid with an American credit card but the last time you used the laundromat you did not use the tumble dryer which is not American-like. And these are not American clothes; we detect as many scarves as a European would have, and those low crotch pants look Nepalese or African. Please contact our fraud office if you think we have made an error.”

(edit) …15 min later…

“We see that you removed the scarves and low-crotch pants from your load and that you attempted to order tumble dry service in advance. This conformist behavior is inconsistent with your KYC profile. We have therefore suspended your account for your security until you conduct a 30 minute interview with our automated KYC specialists.”

(edit) …2 min later…

“You have just been instantly validated based on personality traits due to the article you just deposited into the washing machine. Unfortunately we do not yet have a cleaning program in the database for human excrement. Please subscribe to our newsletter so you can monitor new developments and new cleaning programs.”

Your CC got blocked, call your bank and solve it.

The account was in good standing worked daily, before and after the laundry attempt. When an online merchant blocks me my bank often tells me “it’s not coming from us; your account is fine on our side”.

I was never given the answer. How can you solve a problem when merchants will not tell you what the problem is? They think they are dealing with fraud so they are afraid to inform (who they regard as) a criminal. Getting information out of a merchant about a failed transaction is a social engineering effort on par with what hackers do.

When everyone else goes to the laundry and doesn’t have the right coins they should do exactly what? Take a trip downtown to the bank?

You can, and it would be a good exercise for you to see first hand how banks treat consumers when they tell you GTFO for asking for a small amount of coins. You will see for yourself that banks are unworthy of the power you give them.

Your local cigarettes shop isn’t obligated to break you a 20.

Fuck that shop then. They don’t want your business and have failed to earn it. It’s a worthy exercise just to know where you stand.

I barely use cash and my payments always work. … What am I doing wrong that digital payments always work for me?

You’re living a boxed in life just the way they want you to.

Much less frequently I cannot pay for digital reasons than for “oh fk, I forgot to withdraw cash again”. I remember that being a weekly problem.

So the one variable that is easily in your own control and you manage to fuck it up. You got issues. But certainly whatever puts you in a situation where an ATM is far from where you need one, you can fairly blame that on the banks who are the proactive cause for ATM sparsity.

Bill Gates and the https://betterthancash.org alliance loves you.

I used to be that way. Used a card to pay for everything; even just a candybar. Then I noticed the banks abusing their power, rampant data breaches because banks and credit bureaus don’t give a shit about data protection, large banks financing private prisons and fossil fuels, small banks investing with large banks, banks abusing KYC to collect far more than legally required, banks taking extortionate fees from merchants, banks nannying consumers by blocking wikileaks, banks forcing people to contract with Google to get their app then forcing people to upgrade their phone hardware (creating more e-waste), etc.

At one point I came to realise I’ve recklessly made myself part of those problems by using banks more than necessary. Banks need a shorter leash and consumers should be holding that leash.

Those engineers took simple design to the fullest extent. But then the landlord dropped the ball or cheaped out by not offering a change machine which could easily be fed when emptying the other machines.

I must say I like the side-effect. It pressures people to use cash in shops. This is a good thing because the #warOnCash is going the way Bill Gates wants it to, which gives more power to the banks and corporations at the expense of disempowering the people. The funny thing about your interaction with the bank is that it serves as yet another instance of banks not using their position ethically. Banks love the war on cash, so making it hard to withdraw or deposit serves as more proof that giving banks exclusive control is a bad idea.

Have you tried this hack? → Buy groceries and intentionally overpay with your card and ask for the difference as cash back in the form of as many as 50¢ coins as the cashier is willing to give?

It is very inclusive

Not in the slightest. Here’s what’s inclusive: cash. Cash does not discriminate against anyone. Banks are a shit show. It was hard to get a Danish account open and funded, and then once it was funded the money was trapped - could not be transferred out internationally.

backup solutions for people who want to top up in cash

They told me to pound sand. And they could not tell me why my bank card was refused despite the account being in good standing.

solutions for when the internet is down.

How so? There is no full-time on-site custodian who can override anything. There is no way to insert cash. The system is outsourced and the apartment managers only work during business hours. Once they had me locked into a lease agreement, they had no motivation to accommodate. Imagine if they did have to dispatch someone to run the machine for me, and then add it to my bill if the system allows it. The human effort every time I need to wash clothes would have made them quickly realise the foolishness of this system.

There is no culture of inclusion with Danish businesses. There are cashless retailers on university campuses. If you want a sandwich at 2pm and you only have cash, you’re stuffed. If you don’t have Facebook, you are excluded from some university announcements. If you do not have a mobile phone service to do the required 2FA for some university resources, they tell you to pound sand. Then if you cheat and use a free pinger number, they take action against you. You cannot even make a photocopy in some places without a CPR number. Denmark is a society that pushes digital exclusion to the greatest extent I have ever experienced.

It’s not a fear problem. It’s an engineering competency problem. They designed something more poorly engineered than the technology it replaced, so it never should have been rolled out. It’s a shitshow of failures and it excludes people, by design. Everyone should be able to clean their clothes, not just a select group who have the right combination of hardware, software, banking service, and unhealthy disregard for privacy and infosec.

Having dirty clothes because your bank card with matching logo was mysteriously refused for unspecified reasons and having to walk 1km to find a machine that works is a far cry from improving quality of life. Compare that to the quality of life someone feels is hindered when they have to carry coins from their apartment to the laundry room.

Lucky people in the included group should also be wise to realise there are excluded people and refuse to use it on that ethical basis.

Fear it when jerks abuse it to gain power

Misappropriation of power is inherently central to this design. Cash gives you freedom. Electronic payments give banks power over you. And they abuse it, like when they blocked donations to Wikileaks. They abuse it when they block you from using Tor. They abuse it when they lock your account because a document on file expired. Or when they require you to form an info-sharing relationship with Google and agree to Google’s terms just to download an app exclusively distributed by Google. It’s important to always have a bank-free option.