• natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
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    8 months ago

    You understand that there are literal former American citizens living in the occupied territories, right? Like, when you hear about settlers in kibbutzs a lot of them are former Americans and Europeans.

    Israel is a European colonial project, there were already people living in the area before Israel was created in 1940s.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      And you think those are just random Europeans who converted to Judaism to seize Israel for the lulz? Because that’s quite clearly the assertion that I quoted and am disputing.

      Fuck, man, I think the creation of Israel was a mistake, but “They aren’t real Jews!” is going into some Black Israelites shit.

      Israel is a European colonial project, there were already people living in the area before Israel was created in 1940s.

      Zionism predates the creation of Israel. The creation of Israel was recognition of a de facto state of affairs that had developed out of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire which resulted in large numbers of Jews fleeing traditionally-antisemitic Europe (as Nazi Germany would soon prove was a life-saving choice), and later of Jews fleeing a rising wave of nationalist antisemitism in Arab states.

      • natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com
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        8 months ago

        No one said anything about “real Jews”, we’re talking about Israelis, who are at most a single generation away from being European, many of the older generation were born in Europe regardless of religion.

        So yes, Israelis are European colonists who displaced the people who lived on that land for many generations before any of them showed up.

        Zionism predates the creation of Israel.

        Yup, created in Europe late 18th century.

        Nothing you’ve described entitles European colonists to the land in Israel. They are there now, Israel isn’t going anywhere, but that does not excuse the ongoing genocide of the people who lived there already and have a much more substantiated claim to the land.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          No one said anything about “real Jews”, we’re talking about Israelis who are at most a single generation away from being European, many of the older generation were born in Europe regardless of religion.

          Jesus Christ.

          First, please look into the demographics of Israeli Jews.

          Second, “At most a single generation”? Jesus fucking Christ, are you being serious?

          So yes, Israelis are European colonists who displaced the people who lived on that land for many generations before any of them showed up.

          I feel like we could get into a long argument here about the history of the region, but I think all of that is secondary to the fact that none of that has anything to do with Europeans converting to Judaism to steal Palestinian land. Jews from Europe, fleeing persecution, came to Palestine, where there was already a sizable Jewish minority.

          Nothing you’ve described entitles European colonists to the land in Israel. They are there now, Israel isn’t going anywhere, but that does not excuse the ongoing genocide of the people who lived there already and have a much more substantiated claim to the land.

          When the fuck have I excused the ongoing genocide?

          Here, let me help you out by requoting literally everything I said before you objected to me:

          so random Europeans who converted to Judaism a couple years ago can seize it.

          Fucking what